Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:53 pm  

Ahh all the chelping from Lenighan & co about uncertain fixtures so the brains trust cime up with Loop fixtures.
Guess what nobody knows what those loop fixtures will be either.
Im happy with top 5 but id hoped to see the 1 up 1 down extended to 2nd top Championship v 2nd Bottom SL for the MPG.
I think a 14 team SL would be better than loop fixtures & whatever GH thinks a reserve league is a must imo.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 pm  

14 team SL needs to be put into place in next 2 to 3 years. Give clubs time to build. Need to find a way to get money invested in the game.

GH is our greatest ever chairman but he is wrong on this but it's wrong to say he should go.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:09 pm  

So because other teams, who are all much more desperate for cash and security than Leeds because their businesses are generally not well run, voted for something, and Leeds didn't, Hetherington should quit.

If you don't vote for something and everyone else does that's an embarrassment in Gotchaland apparently.

Even when it's something which isn't really that consequential like a league format (which it is clear has been an excuse from all those non-performing club bosses as to why their clubs were losing crowds and money hand over fist).

So some great thinking there from Gotcha: if you don't go with the flow you should resign. Cos all those who voted yes have proven themselves to be visionary forward thinkers. And their club level incompetencey will all be solved by bringing back the competition structure from a decade ago and the play off structure from two decades ago.

Leeds are the biggest club in the game. Other than maybe Warrington we are the only financially stable English Super League club. Our potential relegation had the scope to single handedly knock millions off the value of the next TV contract. Our club is run to break even because the owner isn't looking for a return. Almost uniquely we can take a long view. If the people running other clubs don't agree that's fine. But bending over, voting against what you believe is right for the whole sport, voting to agree with some short termist grasping chancers just to avoid being in a minority would be the ultimate embarrassment.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:36 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

So because other teams, who are all much more desperate for cash and security than Leeds because their businesses are generally not well run, voted for something, and Leeds didn't, Hetherington should quit.

If you don't vote for something and everyone else does that's an embarrassment in Gotchaland apparently.

Even when it's something which isn't really that consequential like a league format (which it is clear has been an excuse from all those non-performing club bosses as to why their clubs were losing crowds and money hand over fist).

So some great thinking there from Gotcha: if you don't go with the flow you should resign. Cos all those who voted yes have proven themselves to be visionary forward thinkers. And their club level incompetencey will all be solved by bringing back the competition structure from a decade ago and the play off structure from two decades ago.

Leeds are the biggest club in the game. Other than maybe Warrington we are the only financially stable English Super League club. Our potential relegation had the scope to single handedly knock millions off the value of the next TV contract. Our club is run to break even because the owner isn't looking for a return. Almost uniquely we can take a long view. If the people running other clubs don't agree that's fine. But bending over, voting against what you believe is right for the whole sport, voting to agree with some short termist grasping chancers just to avoid being in a minority would be the ultimate embarrassment.

An interesting post - just because you run your business effectively and don't forget Leeds has significant advantages over most other SL clubs in terms of potential audience especially corporate revenues it doesn't mean you are in touch with reality.

Leeds can only continue to prosper if they have fixtures that supporters/corporate/TV want to be involved with. If GH had his way the salary cap would be set to lowest that any team could manage i.e. Wakefield. Financially perhaps that would be good thing in the short term long-term it would be a disaster for the game. We have seen the drop off in the standard since the NRL salary cap increased how does lowering the cap improve the spectacle?

GH doesn't want to run a reserve grade - so again players are simply cast aside at 19 and lost to a game that is crying out for participation - again how is that good for the game.

Sometimes you need to be mindful of the long-term future of your business when you are looking down from your ivory tower. A deal is only a good deal if it works for all parties. SL generates all the revenues in the game - without the SL players you wouldn't have internationals nor would you have a CC competition worth anything. For the long-term prosperity of the game we have to have an elite competion that generates real quality and interest something that GH seems to have not considered.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:55 am  

The reserve team I agree on, not because Hetherington's approach is wrong in practice but because of the destructive effect it has on the league below in using dual reg for a de facto reserve teams.

But the excuses being made that the 8s is the root of all problems is laughable. Is it too much jeopardy for too many SL teams? Possibly. But it's enlivened that end of the table and the championship. On the other hand the short notice of fixtures is a definite challenge so it has its weaknesses. But changing format isn't going to suddenly make viable all those clubs which aren't viable. Grasping a bit more money at the same time would have, slightly, but that seems to have been fought off.

Going all in to save the 8s is probably not what I'd have bothered with if I were running Leeds as, frankly, it doesn't really make much difference to the end of the table we generally swim in. But standing up for the interests of the rest of the game is something I do applaud Hetherington for.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:26 am  

The Warning bells have been ringing for years. The fact that so few clubs in SL are thought of as financially stable should be a major cause for concern for those who follow this great game, including those that follow "sucessful" clubs. We struggle (and fail?) to maintain a truely competative 12 team comp, both on and more importantly off the field, Whilst I'm sure that many who don't follow Leeds will take a degree of schadenfreude from our performances this season and fair play to them. There is no joy for me in seeing clubs like Salford or Wakey struugle on the financial front. If we think the game is struggling now, imagine it if there were only 4 or 5 viable top flight clubs. Our failure to generate a truely competative world cup or international competition has, IMO, damaged the sport financially in the Norther hemisphere. If we can not pull together a sustainable model for top flight RL over here then we are doomed to a slow decline into total obscurity. We need strong collabrative leadership at club and RFL level and please god, a decent strategic plan.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:19 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The reserve team I agree on, not because Hetherington's approach is wrong in practice but because of the destructive effect it has on the league below in using dual reg for a de facto reserve teams.

But the excuses being made that the 8s is the root of all problems is laughable. Is it too much jeopardy for too many SL teams? Possibly. But it's enlivened that end of the table and the championship. On the other hand the short notice of fixtures is a definite challenge so it has its weaknesses. But changing format isn't going to suddenly make viable all those clubs which aren't viable. Grasping a bit more money at the same time would have, slightly, but that seems to have been fought off.

Going all in to save the 8s is probably not what I'd have bothered with if I were running Leeds as, frankly, it doesn't really make much difference to the end of the table we generally swim in. But standing up for the interests of the rest of the game is something I do applaud Hetherington for.

The 8s may not be the root of problems but are a major concern. Attendances at matches and viewing figures are woeful. The system has obviously not enlivened things up as if it had it would be reflected in the attendances and viewing figures.. If they continue will have very adverse effect for negotiations for TV rights next time around. Clubs don't like the system, fans don't like the system so why continue with it.

If you believe Hetherington was standing up for the rest of the game in an altruistic way and should be applauded you must be very gullible. He was trying to stir things up purely to serve his own ends as he always does. He is always full of himself when putting forward his views but noticeably quiet when things go against him. The Fev Chairman was very considered in his response. Expressing his disappointment yet acknowledging the need to work together in the future. What was Hetherington's response? No comment he needed time to consider the situation. I wonder if the reporter managed to avoid the dummy?

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:18 am  

If only a quick fix solution was available to cure the problem. The game at the moment is stagnant, boring and lacking any kind of appeal whatsoever. Phil Clarke the other night on sky said the championship clubs should have the money to them reduced. Because they had not improved or expanded the game. That may be the case ,but that accusation could apply to several super league clubs. Unfortunately I am in my late sixties, the only plus side is over the years I have been privileged to watch some superb players. Some of the games I have witnessed this season have taken boredom to the extreme. The number of talented players on view is minuscule.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:17 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

If only a quick fix solution was available to cure the problem. The game at the moment is stagnant, boring and lacking any kind of appeal whatsoever. Phil Clarke the other night on sky said the championship clubs should have the money to them reduced. Because they had not improved or expanded the game. That may be the case ,but that accusation could apply to several super league clubs. Unfortunately I am in my late sixties, the only plus side is over the years I have been privileged to watch some superb players. Some of the games I have witnessed this season have taken boredom to the extreme. The number of talented players on view is minuscule.

He didn't say that at all. What he asked was is that the best use of the money, questioning if it could be better used to support community clubs with the aim of increasing player participation.

Re: Lenighan blames West Yorkshire mafia : Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:01 pm  

I’m torn on this one.

I like the 8’s, it’s probably the only system that eliminates as many “meaningless” games as a system ever can do and it does breathe life into the bottom of the table and the top of the Championship.

However, I think it draws too many clubs into potential relegation. Leeds being a good example of this this season. A team finishing 9th in the season is having to delay signings and planning for next season and beyond because their future in SL isn’t certain. Now for a club like Leeds they can probably deal with that uncertainty for a year but smaller clubs who are in that position year on year must be struggling.

So whilst I’d prefer a licensed league, I prefer the new structure over the current one. I like the top 5 playoffs as well.
I don’t like the loop fixtures. I get clubs would struggle with only 11 home games but I’d rather expand the league than have extra games against the same teams. Personally I’d expand the league to either 16 or even 20 teams.

What I don’t like though is the squabbling and time and effort that has been put into this from elements of the sport when they should be finding ways of improving attendances, corporate sales, sponsorship and non-game day revenues instead of just blaming the RFL for all the game’s ills.

The structure of the league isn’t going to significantly improve the health of the league. Clubs improving their own infrastructure instead of spending all their money on players, will.

Personally I’d introduce a rule on the salary cap, either you can only spend a maximum of 25% of your clubs income on players wages, or 50% but discount the TV money from a clubs relevant income for the calculation.

That way a club would have to bring in around £4m a year of their own money before they can spend the full cap.

I get there are concerns about the size of our salary cap compared to the NRL and Union, but whilst their salary cap is much higher so are their revenues.

We need our clubs to grow their revenues before spending more on the same players.