Re: Rob Burrow : Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:08 pm  

Regarding those two Wigan tries. The Burgess one, Hardaker's on a hiding to nothing there, even if he doesn't slip it's hard to stop a player of that speed running sweetly onto a pass, the fault lay completely with those who allowed him through the line.

For the Williams one, yes he could've/should've been further over. All it would've done though is made Williams mind up to pass to Burgess instead of go himself, and as good as Hardaker and how great he turned and caught Grix the other week, he wouldn't have caught Burgess.

Re: Rob Burrow : Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:26 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

You'd have to be off in cloud cuckoo land (or Stevo) to regard Burrow as the outstanding performance of the 34 on the field that night. As we all know though, Stevo has his favourites when it comes to nominating man of the match, and it's usually whoever the dominant dummy half was in the last ten minutes of the game that sticks in his memory.

Man of the match awards often go to the player who made the greater impact rather than had the greater overall influence on the game. For example, Ryan Sheridan should have got man of the match in the 1999 Cup Final but can anyone really argue Rivett's influence on the game.

In the 2011 Grand Final Burrow probably wasn't the most dominant player on the pitch (he wasn't on it the whole time) but is there any doubt he had the greatest impact and turned the game?

The Hull game in question we were dreadful in the first half (McGuire in particular) but all were much better in the second, Burrow has an instrumental effect on that.

The point I, and others, are making is had Burrow been given the ball to score those two late tries he'd have had the opportunity to have a fantastically impactful effect upon the outcome of the game, possibly even winning it. That is just as vital to a team's success as the sort of Peacock/Cuthbertson stint. Burrow can, and still, provide that impact. I don't think many others in our squad can.

Re: Rob Burrow : Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:07 am  

Just on the Burgess try, he got done by a big man with speed and evasion which was great to watch. The try wasn't down to Hardaker anyway, but the ambling broken kick-chase which enabled Bowen to make good yards and then pick how he'd get Burgess away with absolute ease. Hardaker may think he could have done better, but IMO the entire right side defence was dire well before it got to him.

Re: Rob Burrow : Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:52 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Just on the Burgess try, he got done by a big man with speed and evasion which was great to watch. The try wasn't down to Hardaker anyway, but the ambling broken kick-chase which enabled Bowen to make good yards and then pick how he'd get Burgess away with absolute ease. Hardaker may think he could have done better, but IMO the entire right side defence was dire well before it got to him.

Poor numbering to start with. Can't remember who it was, but the third man in let Bowen get onto his outside shoulder, which pulled in I think it was Watkins to deal with Bowen and left Handley two on one.

Unfortunately, rather than crashing inside to take out the immediate threat he opted to stay out on the widest player and left a massive hole for Burgess to stroll through.

Came from one of a sequence of pretty aimless kicks though. Hard to structure a kick-chase if you've absolutely no idea where the ball is going.

Re: Rob Burrow : Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:49 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Poor numbering to start with. Can't remember who it was, but the third man in let Bowen get onto his outside shoulder, which pulled in I think it was Watkins to deal with Bowen and left Handley two on one.

Unfortunately, rather than crashing inside to take out the immediate threat he opted to stay out on the widest player and left a massive hole for Burgess to stroll through.

Came from one of a sequence of pretty aimless kicks though. Hard to structure a kick-chase if you've absolutely no idea where the ball is going.

Ablett at fault really for the Burgess try. We had Handley, Watkins, Aiton and Ablett over that side for the kick chase but Ablett dawdled and was was a yard or two behind the others instead of inline with them. And wasn't because of the quality of the kick, he just got lazy running up with his teammates.

Re: Rob Burrow : Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:34 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote: Poor numbering to start with. Can't remember who it was, but the third man in let Bowen get onto his outside shoulder, which pulled in I think it was Watkins to deal with Bowen and left Handley two on one. Unfortunately, rather than crashing inside to take out the immediate threat he opted to stay out on the widest player and left a massive hole for Burgess to stroll through. Came from one of a sequence of pretty aimless kicks though. Hard to structure a kick-chase if you've absolutely no idea where the ball is going. The third man in was JJB (I think) and he looked to have Bowen covered from inside but Bowen was running a good angle at pace and Watkins, instead of sliding out, got drawn in to tackle Bowen who with perfect timing release Burgess who broke the line in the gap left by Watkins and with a slight change of direction at full speed wrong footed Hardaker who had overrun by 2 metres where he should have been. Class play by both Bowen and Burgess. See the highlights on the superleague site. http://www.superleague.co.uk/sltv/slhighlights# I agree that the kick was long and aimless and went straight to Bowen who ran back at speed and purpose to link with Burgess so I would say more of a Watkins error than a kick chase error. IMO Watkins looked a bit slack in defense for their first try too.

Andy Gilder wrote: Poor numbering to start with. Can't remember who it was, but the third man in let Bowen get onto his outside shoulder, which pulled in I think it was Watkins to deal with Bowen and left Handley two on one. Unfortunately, rather than crashing inside to take out the immediate threat he opted to stay out on the widest player and left a massive hole for Burgess to stroll through. Came from one of a sequence of pretty aimless kicks though. Hard to structure a kick-chase if you've absolutely no idea where the ball is going. The third man in was JJB (I think) and he looked to have Bowen covered from inside but Bowen was running a good angle at pace and Watkins, instead of sliding out, got drawn in to tackle Bowen who with perfect timing release Burgess who broke the line in the gap left by Watkins and with a slight change of direction at full speed wrong footed Hardaker who had overrun by 2 metres where he should have been. Class play by both Bowen and Burgess. See the highlights on the superleague site. http://www.superleague.co.uk/sltv/slhighlights# I agree that the kick was long and aimless and went straight to Bowen who ran back at speed and purpose to link with Burgess so I would say more of a Watkins error than a kick chase error. IMO Watkins looked a bit slack in defense for their first try too.

Re: Rob Burrow : Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:39 pm  

Watched it again, think JJB takes a poor angle and gives Bowen the outside despite the fact there was nobody on his inside. That means Watkins can't slide off because he's worried Bowen is doing to do JJB for gas on his outside. He ends up so engaged on Bowen that he doesn't see Burgess, and for some reason neither does Handley until it's too late.

Re: Rob Burrow : Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:08 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Watched it again, think JJB takes a poor angle and gives Bowen the outside despite the fact there was nobody on his inside. That means Watkins can't slide off because he's worried Bowen is doing to do JJB for gas on his outside. He ends up so engaged on Bowen that he doesn't see Burgess, and for some reason neither does Handley until it's too late.

JJB is leading the kick chase with Ablett some way behind. Bowen is looking to link with his left wing and was always on the outside of JJB angling to touch. As our defense lines up with JJB on the 40m line both Ablett and Watkins are staggered behind this line. Bowen's run is still angled towards the touchline with Burgess and his centre outside him.

In fact JJB is perfectly placed on a collision course to tackle Bowen and has him covered but Watkins misreads and does not slide out to cover the danger man Burgess but steps in to tackle Bowen, obstructing JJB in the process, and in so doing leaves the gap that Bowen exploits for Burgess to speed through. Bowen passes well before the contact from Watkins and had he not passed and Watlkins had stayed on Burgess then JJB would have taken Bowen and there was support from Ablett arriving. So credit Bowen and Burgess but IMO it was a defensive error from Watkins.

Re: Rob Burrow : Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:38 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

JJB is leading the kick chase with Ablett some way behind. Bowen is looking to link with his left wing and was always on the outside of JJB angling to touch. As our defense lines up with JJB on the 40m line both Ablett and Watkins are staggered behind this line. Bowen's run is still angled towards the touchline with Burgess and his centre outside him.

In fact JJB is perfectly placed on a collision course to tackle Bowen and has him covered but Watkins misreads and does not slide out to cover the danger man Burgess but steps in to tackle Bowen, obstructing JJB in the process, and in so doing leaves the gap that Bowen exploits for Burgess to speed through. Bowen passes well before the contact from Watkins and had he not passed and Watlkins had stayed on Burgess then JJB would have taken Bowen and there was support from Ablett arriving. So credit Bowen and Burgess but IMO it was a defensive error from Watkins.

Bowen would've beaten JJB imo looking at the reply from behind the posts. Their's a reason JJB doesn't play in the 2nd row nowadays and speed is the key one. he was playing in the middle and Ablett was 2nd row and should've been between JJB and Watkins not 2m directly behind JJB. Ablett's positioning for the play is basically pointless, he might as well have been stood off the pitch for all the use he was there. The try came from the gap that developed between JJB and Watkins, the gap Ablett should've been in. Watkins starts off the kick chase slightly behind but that's because he's dropped back a bit on the last tackle incase our kickers are hurried and need to throw it out wide to get a kick in like we do sometimes with our centres especially Moon has a few kicks now and again, however he's easily made it a straight line in time for Bowen to approach the line.

JJB was playing prop at that time (having replaced Cuthbertson). Your prop and your centre shouldn't really find themselves next to each other in the defensive line for a kick chase with your second rower a few yards behind. Watkins could've stuck with Burgess and Bowen for me beats JJB, now that could mean a variety of things happen. Hardaker gets to Bowen downfield, Bowen breaks and still finds a support runner and scores etc. But the whole problem and the choices the others had to make arose from Ablett's lazy kick chase. He doesn't do that then Watkins and Handley have no choice to make, JJB isn't struggling to reach Bowen, Hardaker not needed.

Re: Rob Burrow : Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:02 pm  

Utterly offerd nothing again should not be playing next week. Great player but said it other week that two year contract looks a joke.