Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:18 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Farrell runs more metres than any of the other second row forwards selected, also his defensive record of only 12 missed tackles all season is very impressive, although he can give a few silly penalties away.

Name me any 30+ tackle per game player that doesn't?

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:28 am  

Clearwing wrote:

Name me any 30+ tackle per game player that doesn't?

Agree, but I didn't want to appear to be Wigan biassed.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:45 am  

Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:54 am  

tigertot wrote:

Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough.

Matty Smith will do a job alongside a half with more flair. Halves who can do flair and structure would be lovely (sadly the Aussies have them) but we don't have any. So I think we need somebody like Smith alongside somebody like Tomkins or Widdop.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 am  

I'd go for Widdop and Tomkins in the halves purely because I doubt an over-cautious approach will serve us well. That also gives Hardaker, who's never been less than effective all season season, the full back berth.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:01 pm  

tigertot wrote: Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough. Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147

tigertot wrote: Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough. Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:34 pm  

Widdop was in the running for the Dally M medal (finished 5 or 6th if memmory serves), he has to be the first choice in the halves.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:45 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147 Here is why he's a gamble. He also produces more phenomenal offloads and wonder plays. I dunno whether it's worth it. I'd give it a go though. I think the clean breaks could be a little deceptive - he does tend to run out wide, and the ferocity of Wigan's forward play up the middle does tend to suck defences in and create space out wide. That being pretty much the game plan. I daresay I will be accused of Leeds bias (unfairly as there are very few Leeds players I'd pick this year) but I think Ablett has been better than either Farrell or Ferres this year. Dunno whether that's what the stats say. Farrell won't let anyone down. Question is do we take that or gamble on something more? I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer to that.

Rogues Gallery wrote: Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147 Here is why he's a gamble. He also produces more phenomenal offloads and wonder plays. I dunno whether it's worth it. I'd give it a go though. I think the clean breaks could be a little deceptive - he does tend to run out wide, and the ferocity of Wigan's forward play up the middle does tend to suck defences in and create space out wide. That being pretty much the game plan. I daresay I will be accused of Leeds bias (unfairly as there are very few Leeds players I'd pick this year) but I think Ablett has been better than either Farrell or Ferres this year. Dunno whether that's what the stats say. Farrell won't let anyone down. Question is do we take that or gamble on something more? I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer to that.

[Bullseye]

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:20 pm  

Widdop and Smith in the halves for me. Widdop’s played very well for the Dragons this year until a bit of a slump toward the last few weeks.

Tomkins defending in the line would be a defensive nightmare.

Backrow is a conundrum. I’d have Farrell in there for his workrate and he misses very few tackles. He needs to be alongside with a bit of an attacking threat. Ferres didn’t look out of place last year but hasn’t looked great for Hudders. J Tomkins hasn’t been back long enough for me to see if he’s up to it but he does offer some pace and versatility. Whitehead is great with ball in hand but still a defensive liability.

I’d go for

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Shenton
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G,Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
J,Tomkins
Farrell
O’Loughlin

Clark
T,Burgess
Ferres
Hill

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:09 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

Matty Smith will do a job alongside a half with more flair. Halves who can do flair and structure would be lovely (sadly the Aussies have them) but we don't have any. So I think we need somebody like Smith alongside somebody like Tomkins or Widdop.

Smith will pass, which he does quite well, & kick, which he does less well. That's it, he doesn't create & he doesn't support breaks, as he lacks the pace. If Tomkins is up to it at HB he should start with Widdop. Do a job is polite for average. I accept that, if Brough is Scottish, there's not much else.