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Brexit watch (part 2) Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:56 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Even though this thread may get de-railed, it's certainly a newsworthy subject.

With N. Ireland having been thrown under the wheels of the Brexit bus, the situation over there has no been seen aw unworkable and damaging trade between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK - not much of a surprise really.- and the UK government look set to trigger article 16, putting a temporary hold on the Brexit legislation.

What next and could this be the proverbial straw that breaks the back of Boris's premiership.

There seems plenty of talk about a possible coup to get rid but, as far as Brexit is concerned, changing the PM wont make a scrap of difference.
All of the issues that were there before, during and since the vote, still remain and unless there the Good Friday Agreement is going to be scrapped, which just isn't going to happen, what on earth will the solution be ?
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:37 pm  

chissitt wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
With N. Ireland having been thrown under the wheels of the Brexit bus, the situation over there has no been seen aw unworkable and damaging trade between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK - not much of a surprise really.- and the UK government look set to trigger article 16, putting a temporary hold on the Brexit legislation.
There seems plenty of talk about a possible coup to get rid but, as far as Brexit is concerned, changing the PM wont make a scrap of difference.
All of the issues that were there before, during and since the vote, still remain and unless there the Good Friday Agreement is going to be scrapped, which just isn't going to happen, what on earth will the solution be ?

Bearing in mind that previously the French could not give a toss about Belfast and Londonderry and Northern Ireland in general in the past, what are your thoughts that they now show concern for the people of NI? also what are your thoughts on the French still fishing illegally in our waters yet detain a Scottish vessel for allegedly fishing in their waters, and while we're on the matter of the French perhaps you'd like to voice an opinion on them hijacking a load of covid 19 vaccines in France on there way to this country, but your right on two counts, changing the PM won't make a scrap of difference, and all the issues that were there before during and after are still there voted for by in case you need reminding by the good people of this country, I'm sure blink and nod won't be long in sharing they're thoughts on the matter.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:58 pm  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
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There’s a good little video on the economics of Brexit by an Australian guy on YouTube. The Economics Explained channel. It’s pretty balanced and stripped of a lot of the emotive stuff and ritual points scoring that limits sensible discussion amongst Brits of the two Brexit tribes.

One point I disagree with earlier posters on is whether changing Prime Minister would help. I think it would for two reasons.

1. Stoking tensions and keeping Brexit ‘live’ is Johnson’s go to tactic to keep Brexiteers onside. It is his thing. A new Prime Minister would likely want a new thing, and to just tie off the loose ends rather than continually pulling at them.

2. It is a secret so open that is no longer a secret that Johnson, Cummings and Frost negotiated and agreed the withdrawal agreement in bad faith. They’d boxed themselves in and if Brexit is important to you, I can see a means justifying the ends type of argument. But it does mean that what credibility they had with negotiating partners is shot. Somebody else could offer a cleaner slate, facilitating ironing out the difficulties - and, as mentioned above, they would probably want to at least.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:19 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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chissitt wrote:
Bearing in mind that previously the French could not give a toss about Belfast and Londonderry and Northern Ireland in general in the past, what are your thoughts that they now show concern for the people of NI? also what are your thoughts on the French still fishing illegally in our waters yet detain a Scottish vessel for allegedly fishing in their waters, and while we're on the matter of the French perhaps you'd like to voice an opinion on them hijacking a load of covid 19 vaccines in France on there way to this country, but your right on two counts, changing the PM won't make a scrap of difference, and all the issues that were there before during and after are still there voted for by in case you need reminding by the good people of this country, I'm sure blink and nod won't be long in sharing they're thoughts on the matter.


I suppose that previously (pre Brexit) there was little need for the French (or anyone else) to be bothered about N .Ireland (aside from the GFA).
As for the vote by the good people of this country, I'm just pleased that "you" could see through the political "smog" and that everything is/was so straightforward.
Maybe take a look at the possible effects of invoking article 16, there is quite an interesting possible outcome, which isn't quite what the majority voted for, although it will please the most keen of the Brexiteers.
Interesting times ahead and the "oven ready deal" seem like it wasn't cooked through, perhaps a little half baked (like the clown who promised to "get Brexit done".
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Mild Rover wrote:
There’s a good little video on the economics of Brexit by an Australian guy on YouTube. The Economics Explained channel. It’s pretty balanced and stripped of a lot of the emotive stuff and ritual points scoring that limits sensible discussion amongst Brits of the two Brexit tribes.

One point I disagree with earlier posters on is whether changing Prime Minister would help. I think it would for two reasons.

1. Stoking tensions and keeping Brexit ‘live’ is Johnson’s go to tactic to keep Brexiteers onside. It is his thing. A new Prime Minister would likely want a new thing, and to just tie off the loose ends rather than continually pulling at them.

2. It is a secret so open that is no longer a secret that Johnson, Cummings and Frost negotiated and agreed the withdrawal agreement in bad faith. They’d boxed themselves in and if Brexit is important to you, I can see a means justifying the ends type of argument. But it does mean that what credibility they had with negotiating partners is shot. Somebody else could offer a cleaner slate, facilitating ironing out the difficulties - and, as mentioned above, they would probably want to at least.


It's certainly true that any new PM, would want to improve the credibility of the UK with the rest of the world, certainly in terms of honouring any deal which may be agreed in future.
As for Brexit and Ireland, I'm not sure that there is a solution which will appease the UK, N. Ireland and the EU, unless the GFA is abolished or, there is a return to a "united" Ireland.
The only other option seems to rely on the trust of all parties and that seems just as unpalatable as the Irish Sea "border".

Mrs May, who was given the runaround by her own MP's (including Boris and Gove) seemed to understand this somewhat better than the PM.
We had too many "red lines" to allow a deal to work.
Having physical checks on goods moving across the Irish border (in both directions seems impossible if physical border checks are not permitted but, this was known pre referendum and certainly known when we signed the current deal.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:35 am  

chissitt wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
I suppose that previously (pre Brexit) there was little need for the French (or anyone else) to be bothered about N .Ireland (aside from the GFA).
As for the vote by the good people of this country, I'm just pleased that "you" could see through the political "smog" and that everything is/was so straightforward.
Maybe take a look at the possible effects of invoking article 16, there is quite an interesting possible outcome, which isn't quite what the majority voted for, although it will please the most keen of the Brexiteers.
Interesting times ahead and the "oven ready deal" seem like it wasn't cooked through, perhaps a little half baked (like the clown who promised to "get Brexit done".

You suppose eh!, is that it? you suppose wow, what do you suppose about the other two bits concerning the bullying tactics I mentioned concerning the French, I suppose you'll be in their line of thinking the as well.
I can certainly see through the political smog on here created by the bowery boys alias wink, blink, and nod, and as for taking a look at article 16, once I get round to looking through articles 1 to 15 I will give it my full attention.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:43 am  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
It's certainly true that any new PM, would want to improve the credibility of the UK with the rest of the world, certainly in terms of honouring any deal which may be agreed in future.
As for Brexit and Ireland, I'm not sure that there is a solution which will appease the UK, N. Ireland and the EU, unless the GFA is abolished or, there is a return to a "united" Ireland.
The only other option seems to rely on the trust of all parties and that seems just as unpalatable as the Irish Sea "border".

Mrs May, who was given the runaround by her own MP's (including Boris and Gove) seemed to understand this somewhat better than the PM.
We had too many "red lines" to allow a deal to work.
Having physical checks on goods moving across the Irish border (in both directions seems impossible if physical border checks are not permitted but, this was known pre referendum and certainly known when we signed the current deal.


It’s a mess. But we are where we are now, and a sticking plaster solution is the best we can hope for, imo. The EU showing a little flexibility, the Unionist community grudgingly accepting that they’ve been done over by Johnson, and the UK accepting Brexit has some negative consequences and this is the one Johnson and, indirectly, the people who elected him chose.

I feel that Brexit will only really be ‘done’ when Johnson is gone. Get Johnson Gone. :)

He’s the Brexit-legacy PM and Brexit is his political comfort blanket. Levelling up and building back better would require lots of hard work, imagination, understanding, consistent leadership, clear policies and planning - not among Johnson’s most noticeable attributes.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:44 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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chissitt wrote:
You suppose eh!, is that it? you suppose wow, what do you suppose about the other two bits concerning the bullying tactics I mentioned concerning the French, I suppose you'll be in their line of thinking the as well.
I can certainly see through the political smog on here created by the bowery boys alias wink, blink, and nod, and as for taking a look at article 16, once I get round to looking through articles 1 to 15 I will give it my full attention.


Enjoy the read, squire !
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:46 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Mild Rover wrote:
It’s a mess. But we are where we are now, and a sticking plaster solution is the best we can hope for, imo. The EU showing a little flexibility, the Unionist community grudgingly accepting that they’ve been done over by Johnson, and the UK accepting Brexit has some negative consequences and this is the one Johnson and, indirectly, the people who elected him chose.

I feel that Brexit will only really be ‘done’ when Johnson is gone. Get Johnson Gone. :)

He’s the Brexit-legacy PM and Brexit is his political comfort blanket. Levelling up and building back better would require lots of hard work, imagination, understanding, consistent leadership, clear policies and planning - not among Johnson’s most noticeable attributes.


I see that Gove has been charged with deciding on some actual policy to explain and implement "levelling up".
That should be fun.
Re: Brexit watch (part 2) Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:58 am  

chissitt wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Enjoy the read, squire !

That's you finished then wink on the subject of the French's questionable antics, the silence from you bllnk and nod is deafening.
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