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Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:10 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:
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wire-quin wrote:
I think it's easy to forget that the early mess we found ourselves in was due to a lack of a pandemic management strategy and a shortage of PPE. Hunt was the previous Health minister and as such picks up a significant proportion of the blame(As does Burnham! albeit from some years ago)


Hunt had some difficult decisions to make - the Tories came into power with a financial crisis on their hands - not solely Labour's fault - to cash was squeezed. The NHS has a finite amount of money so how do you make the best use of the funding?

Do you invest in PPE just in case of a potential pamdemic - last one was around the time of the 1st world war or do you spend the money on the here and now - treat cataracts, hip replacements etc? Hindsight is great thing - ask Brown when he ordered all those vaccines. This wasn't incompetence it was an informed decision based on a set of circumstances.

Not sure you can blame Burnham
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:31 am  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:
Hunt had some difficult decisions to make - the Tories came into power with a financial crisis on their hands - not solely Labour's fault - to cash was squeezed. The NHS has a finite amount of money so how do you make the best use of the funding?

Do you invest in PPE just in case of a potential pamdemic - last one was around the time of the 1st world war or do you spend the money on the here and now - treat cataracts, hip replacements etc? Hindsight is great thing - ask Brown when he ordered all those vaccines. This wasn't incompetence it was an informed decision based on a set of circumstances.

Not sure you can blame Burnham


Actually a Flu Pandemic has been the most serious risk on the National Risk Register since 2004 - above everything including terrorism, floods etc. Government investment in a central buffer stock of PPE has been a lynchpin of response plans since then. This is because economies of scale make it better that they maintain large supplies of "in date" PPE rather than individual hospitals and GP Practises. Hospitals were literally told to only buy small amounts to tide them over until the central stocks were released.

Unfortunately we saw for ourselves that investment in the central buffer stock hadn't been what it should be when orders couldn't be processed due to shortages and we received items that were years past their expiry date and utterly unsuitable or unsafe. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.

While Covid19 wasn't influenza the PPE required was much the same as would've been needed for a flu pandemic.

I hope this particular part of the shambles isn't forgotten about when the public enquiry is held.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:24 pm  
WestEndThinker Strong-running second rower
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Bullseye wrote:
Actually a Flu Pandemic has been the most serious risk on the National Risk Register since 2004 - above everything including terrorism, floods etc. Government investment in a central buffer stock of PPE has been a lynchpin of response plans since then. This is because economies of scale make it better that they maintain large supplies of "in date" PPE rather than individual hospitals and GP Practises. Hospitals were literally told to only buy small amounts to tide them over until the central stocks were released.

Unfortunately we saw for ourselves that investment in the central buffer stock hadn't been what it should be when orders couldn't be processed due to shortages and we received items that were years past their expiry date and utterly unsuitable or unsafe. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.

While Covid19 wasn't influenza the PPE required was much the same as would've been needed for a flu pandemic.

I hope this particular part of the shambles isn't forgotten about when the public enquiry is held.



would that be a GLOBAL PUBLIC ENQUIRY?
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:31 am  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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WestEndThinker wrote:
would that be a GLOBAL PUBLIC ENQUIRY?


I'm not with you. What?
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:47 am  
WestEndThinker Strong-running second rower
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Bullseye wrote:
I'm not with you. What?

Well, the WHO have been blocked from China, nearly 2 million will have died worldwide, so why would an anti-tory UK public enquiry be sufficient?

other than to suit the political agenda of some on here?
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:56 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:
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You would hope a open enquiry would set a platform of excellence in dealing with a future large scale public health emergency.

There is no doubt this government has not covered itself in glory and it doesn't seem to learning from its passed mistakes i.e. over promising.

There isn't a government in the world that couldn't have done a better job it is just a matter of highlighting those areas and developing a more appropriate solution.
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:38 pm  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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WestEndThinker wrote:
Well, the WHO have been blocked from China, nearly 2 million will have died worldwide, so why would an anti-tory UK public enquiry be sufficient?

other than to suit the political agenda of some on here?


I think there's more to be gained by learning lessons in time for the next pandemic. To not do it because it might hurt someone's feelings isn't a valid excuse.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:47 pm  
WestEndThinker Strong-running second rower
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Bullseye wrote:
I think there's more to be gained by learning lessons in time for the next pandemic. To not do it because it might hurt someone's feelings isn't a valid excuse.

you mean like we learned from fake WMD, selling off gold at a record low, or do you mean a chance to try and give the Conservatives a bloody nose. Ypur aim is as flimsy as the basis for your politics.

Anyway,enough said, this is getting boring,green user names intimidating people.
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:54 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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WestEndThinker wrote:
Well, the WHO have been blocked from China, nearly 2 million will have died worldwide, so why would an anti-tory UK public enquiry be sufficient?

other than to suit the political agenda of some on here?


To find out what has been done well and what could be done better in future :shock:

The UK cant control what happens in China but, it can take some "learning" from what happens over here (understatement).
Re: Covid Christmas Chaos Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:08 pm  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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WestEndThinker wrote:
you mean like we learned from fake WMD, selling off gold at a record low, or do you mean a chance to try and give the Conservatives a bloody nose. Ypur aim is as flimsy as the basis for your politics.

Anyway,enough said, this is getting boring,green user names intimidating people.


Thankfully nobody cares about your opinion.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
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