[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:24 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Who wants a border it certainly isn't the UK

I must have imagined all those Brexiters going on about taking control of our borders.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:27 am  

Bullseye wrote:

I must have imagined all those Brexiters going on about taking control of our borders.

I think gammon and irony are mutually exclusive.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:45 am  

Bullseye wrote:

I must have imagined all those Brexiters going on about taking control of our borders.

I doubt many brexitiers are bothered about a border in Ireland - I suggest to you its the likes of Tusk who are more concerned.

The leavers want to control the level of immigration - not free movement of goods - or have I got that wrong?

Surely you use a visa system to control immigration - if we go on holiday in Europe we still have to go through passport control so the idea that we all move freely through Europe without any checks is a myth.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I doubt many brexitiers are bothered about a border in Ireland - I suggest to you its the likes of Tusk who are more concerned.

The leavers want to control the level of immigration - not free movement of goods - or have I got that wrong?

Surely you use a visa system to control immigration - if we go on holiday in Europe we still have to go through passport control so the idea that we all move freely through Europe with any checks is a myth.

Indeed - many Brexiters aren't bothered about a border in Ireland - which is precisely part of the problem; they should have been, and by extension should have found a satisfactory way to resolve it up front, rather than scrambling around now in pursuit of a unicorn solution that either doesn't exist, or is entirely unacceptable to all the other parties involved.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:10 am  

bren2k wrote:

Indeed - many Brexiters aren't bothered about a border in Ireland - which is precisely part of the problem; they should have been, and by extension should have found a satisfactory way to resolve it up front, rather than scrambling around now in pursuit of a unicorn solution that either doesn't exist, or is entirely unacceptable to all the other parties involved.

The vast majority of stock moves across borders with no check - on the basis of appropriate paperwork. If every container were opened and checked nothing would ever move. As I pointed the best supply chains originate in South East Asia e.g. Apple and manage to make it into Europe without delay. The Irish border is a red herring put out as a last ditch attempt by remainers.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:20 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The vast majority of stock moves across borders with no check - on the basis of appropriate paperwork. If every container were opened and checked nothing would ever move. As I pointed the best supply chains originate in South East Asia e.g. Apple and manage to make it into Europe without delay. The Irish border is a red herring put out as a last ditch attempt by remainers.

No it's not a red herring - and no amount of parroting Mr Farage will make it so; this was entirely avoidable, if the hard Brexiteers weren't holding May to ransom to also leave the customs union - which was never a question on the referendum, and indeed some Brexit supporters said at the time that it wasn't part of the deal.

If we were staying in the customs union, or even *a* customs union as per Labour's policy, the Irish border issue would disappear in puff of economic and political common sense.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am  

bren2k wrote:

No it's not a red herring - and no amount of parroting Mr Farage will make it so; this was entirely avoidable, if the hard Brexiteers weren't holding May to ransom to also leave the customs union - which was never a question on the referendum, and indeed some Brexit supporters said at the time that it wasn't part of the deal.

If we were staying in the customs union, or even *a* customs union as per Labour's policy, the Irish border issue would disappear in puff of economic and political common sense.

Bang on the money but, the more right wing elements of the Tory party expect to have their cake, eat it and go back for seconds.
This may be ok as a starting point for negotiation but, it's also fantasy island stuff, which is exactly where some of them belong. They are so bloody insular that they sould be granted their own piece of land and let them get on with ruling over feck all.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:57 am  

bren2k wrote:

No it's not a red herring - and no amount of parroting Mr Farage will make it so; this was entirely avoidable, if the hard Brexiteers weren't holding May to ransom to also leave the customs union - which was never a question on the referendum, and indeed some Brexit supporters said at the time that it wasn't part of the deal.

If we were staying in the customs union, or even *a* customs union as per Labour's policy, the Irish border issue would disappear in puff of economic and political common sense.

We must agree to differ on the real impact of a border in Ireland and the amount of freight that is illegally going to cross the border and also the sea into Europe or the other way.

Every country in the EU is awash with class A drugs - what does that tell you about the effective management of the borders that the EU supposedly hold so dear?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We must agree to differ on the real impact of a border in Ireland and the amount of freight that is illegally going to cross the border and also the sea into Europe or the other way.

You're either deliberately obtuse, or thick, if you can't recognise that the question of a border in Ireland is not just about freight; it has significant political, historical and cultural baggage that no amount of Farage repetition will magic away.

You personify the problem with the whole Brexit clusterfuck - the constant refusal to understand, address and resolve *real* issues - preferring instead, it would seem, to hang on to some fantasy idea that it would all be sorted if we simply believe a bit harder, and "get on with it."

Unbelievable amounts of blind faith in a bunch of self-interested, wealthy elites, who will never be in any way even mildly inconvenienced by the disaster they're forcing us into.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:45 pm  

bren2k wrote:

You're either deliberately obtuse, or thick, if you can't recognise that the question of a border in Ireland is not just about freight; it has significant political, historical and cultural baggage that no amount of Farage repetition will magic away.

You personify the problem with the whole Brexit clusterfuck - the constant refusal to understand, address and resolve *real* issues - preferring instead, it would seem, to hang on to some fantasy idea that it would all be sorted if we simply believe a bit harder, and "get on with it."

Unbelievable amounts of blind faith in a bunch of self-interested, wealthy elites, who will never be in any way even mildly inconvenienced by the disaster they're forcing us into.

Because I don't see things the way you think I should I'm thick!! typical remainer in my opinion

Its people like you that make the border in Ireland to be suddenly something similar to the wall in Berlin - its not and it doesn't mean all of a sudden armageddon. The paras are active on both sides just its called organised crime and it touches every activity both sides of the border - if you think that isn't happening you are more stupid than I thought. All parties are making plenty of money why would they want a change.

Your faith is we stay in nothing changes - no prospect of any real growth unless the EU decides - I would say its the likes of you and your blinkered view of the future that is holding the country back - but you lefties always know what's best for everyone else as long as you are top of the food chain when the revolution happens. Hypocrites of the highest order when you talk about wealthy elites.