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Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:54 pm
Posted by Sal Paradise on Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:54 pm
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Chris28 wrote:
The DUP won't like those :lol:


Neither will Tim Farron
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Posted by bren2k on Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:50 pm
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Sal Paradise wrote:
Labour will lose face if they deliberately tamper with the natural order of Parliament like a bunch of school kids.


That first part of your quote highlights better than most how echo chambers work - and that probably includes me; personally, I fail to see how that size of rally in that many places could be stage managed - safe seat or not, everyone is not a Labour voter, so there would have been some dissenting voices. Contrasted with Mrs May's empty factories and remote village halls filled with party activists, councillors, or employees who were ordered to be there, he was a rock star; and at one point, he was an *actual* rock star - a stadium of 20k kids chanting his name for goodness sake!

You must remember that your conviction that the Labour manifesto was undeliverable is an opinion; there were plenty of independent analysts who said it was - and it least it was costed, so you had some actual numbers to rail against. The Tories couldn't even be arsed to include some basic sums - although with hindsight, that would have been wasted effort, since all their big ticket promises have been ditched anyway.

The quote above is a corker - that's called parliamentary democracy old chum; surely you wouldn't expect the opposition to roll over and vote with the government on things they've campaigned against for fear of being labelled immature? Especially not with JC in charge - he's nothing if not rebellious. I look forward to the utterly impotent Tories fail to get anything through parliament without first giving backhanders on a confidence and supply basis to the DUP - that'll go well.
Posted by Sal Paradise on Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:58 pm
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bren2k wrote:
That first part of your quote highlights better than most how echo chambers work - and that probably includes me; personally, I fail to see how that size of rally in that many places could be stage managed - safe seat or not, everyone is not a Labour voter, so there would have been some dissenting voices. Contrasted with Mrs May's empty factories and remote village halls filled with party activists, councillors, or employees who were ordered to be there, he was a rock star; and at one point, he was an *actual* rock star - a stadium of 20k kids chanting his name for goodness sake!

You must remember that your conviction that the Labour manifesto was undeliverable is an opinion; there were plenty of independent analysts who said it was - and it least it was costed, so you had some actual numbers to rail against. The Tories couldn't even be arsed to include some basic sums - although with hindsight, that would have been wasted effort, since all their big ticket promises have been ditched anyway.

The quote above is a corker - that's called parliamentary democracy old chum; surely you wouldn't expect the opposition to roll over and vote with the government on things they've campaigned against for fear of being labelled immature? Especially not with JC in charge - he's nothing if not rebellious. I look forward to the utterly impotent Tories fail to get anything through parliament without first giving backhanders on a confidence and supply basis to the DUP - that'll go well.


The Tory MP in Shipley used parliamentary democracy to stifle a bill on equal rights i.e. he spoke for hours - that was exposed as a poor use of parliamentary democracy - what happened to him? Let's just say he will not be doing it again for a while. The public are not stupid - if the MPs could they would reverse the Brexit but they know the voting public would not stand for it. Messing around at our expense for the fun of it will do Labour no go going forwards. By all means vote against the bills but don't deliberately disrupt the process "old chum"
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Posted by bren2k on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am
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Sal Paradise wrote:
The Tory MP in Shipley used parliamentary democracy to stifle a bill on equal rights i.e. he spoke for hours - that was exposed as a poor use of parliamentary democracy - what happened to him? Let's just say he will not be doing it again for a while. The public are not stupid - if the MPs could they would reverse the Brexit but they know the voting public would not stand for it. Messing around at our expense for the fun of it will do Labour no go going forwards. By all means vote against the bills but don't deliberately disrupt the process "old chum"


Yes, Philip Davies, the anti-feminist Tory MP for Shipley, tried to filibust a bill designed to protect women from domestic violence; whilst being a member of the equalities committee - that's a disgusting abuse of parliamentary process, and thank you for pointing it out.

I fail to see how that is in any way connected to the official opposition voting down bills that they oppose however; that's what they are there for.
Posted by Sal Paradise on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:50 am
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bren2k wrote:
Yes, Philip Davies, the anti-feminist Tory MP for Shipley, tried to filibust a bill designed to protect women from domestic violence; whilst being a member of the equalities committee - that's a disgusting abuse of parliamentary process, and thank you for pointing it out.

I fail to see how that is in any way connected to the official opposition voting down bills that they oppose however; that's what they are there for.


Because if Labour try to abuse the parliamentary process - just for the sake of it - as did Mr Davies then their fate could quite easily be similar to that of Mr Davies.

I appreciate Corbyn and McDonald are having a real issue accepting the result of the GE - how they have the audacity to suggest they have more legitimacy to run the country than the Tories when 1m people less voted for them shows the arrogance of the top end of the Labour and how out of touch with reality they are.

The question of Corbyn accepting the result was even asked on QT last night :D
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Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:03 am
Posted by wrencat1873 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:03 am
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Sal Paradise wrote:
Because if Labour try to abuse the parliamentary process - just for the sake of it - as did Mr Davies then their fate could quite easily be similar to that of Mr Davies.

I appreciate Corbyn and McDonald are having a real issue accepting the result of the GE - how they have the audacity to suggest they have more legitimacy to run the country than the Tories when 1m people less voted for them shows the arrogance of the top end of the Labour and how out of touch with reality they are.

The question of Corbyn accepting the result was even asked on QT last night :D


I'm sure that you realise that Corbyn & Co are just ramping up the pressure on Mrs May and the Tories.
As it stands, with the make up of parliament following the GE, Labour are in a worse position than the Tories (it's just basic arithmetic) but, by stating they are "ready to govern", it just increases pressure on the fragile Tory leadership.
If it wasnt for the Brexit sideshow, it would be really interesting to see how all this pans out and just how long the Tories put up with Mrs May.
However, with the Brexit negotiations having now begun and the outcome being so critical to all of our futures, Britain appears somewhat vulnerable and we ware certainly in a weaker negotiating position than we were a few months ago.
Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:55 am
Posted by bren2k on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:55 am
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Sal Paradise wrote:
Because if Labour try to abuse the parliamentary process - just for the sake of it - as did Mr Davies then their fate could quite easily be similar to that of Mr Davies.

I appreciate Corbyn and McDonald are having a real issue accepting the result of the GE - how they have the audacity to suggest they have more legitimacy to run the country than the Tories when 1m people less voted for them shows the arrogance of the top end of the Labour and how out of touch with reality they are.

The question of Corbyn accepting the result was even asked on QT last night :D


Ah I see - you're basing your empty threats on assumptions and guesses; and using a much derided Tory MP as an example of the fate that could befall anyone who dares defy the Tories?

Even for you, a poster not shy of making some fairly outrageous claims, this is a leap of logic.

Don't believe everything you see on QT; Peter Oborne claimed on the same programme that the Daily Mail was a paragon of truth and journalistic integrity...
Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:10 pm
Posted by Sal Paradise on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:10 pm
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bren2k wrote:
Ah I see - you're basing your empty threats on assumptions and guesses; and using a much derided Tory MP as an example of the fate that could befall anyone who dares defy the Tories?

Even for you, a poster not shy of making some fairly outrageous claims, this is a leap of logic.

Don't believe everything you see on QT; Peter Oborne claimed on the same programme that the Daily Mail was a paragon of truth and journalistic integrity...


A bit like all your posts based on assumptions and guesses - kettle and pot come to mind :D

I am capable of making my own mind up - but for a question to be asked on QT suggests it is a real issue. McDonald asking for 1m people to flood the streets of London demanding a Labour government as they really won the election - its delusional!!
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Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:15 pm
Posted by Sal Paradise on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:15 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
I'm sure that you realise that Corbyn & Co are just ramping up the pressure on Mrs May and the Tories.
As it stands, with the make up of parliament following the GE, Labour are in a worse position than the Tories (it's just basic arithmetic) but, by stating they are "ready to govern", it just increases pressure on the fragile Tory leadership.
If it wasnt for the Brexit sideshow, it would be really interesting to see how all this pans out and just how long the Tories put up with Mrs May.
However, with the Brexit negotiations having now begun and the outcome being so critical to all of our futures, Britain appears somewhat vulnerable and we ware certainly in a weaker negotiating position than we were a few months ago.


Is that a fact or an assumption on your part?

I actually think Corbyn and McDonald think they actually won - its bonkers - devoid of any reality a bit like their manifesto :D

I don't think it increases any pressure on the Government it just makes Labour look silly as everyone knows they are not ready to govern or they would have won the election - pretty simple really.

As I said "you can fool some of the people" the only people Labour are fooling is themselves :D
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Re: T. May the worst prime minister ever ?
Post Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:27 pm
Posted by wrencat1873 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:27 pm
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Sal Paradise wrote:
Is that a fact or an assumption on your part?

I actually think Corbyn and McDonald think they actually won - its bonkers - devoid of any reality a bit like their manifesto :D

I don't think it increases any pressure on the Government it just makes Labour look silly as everyone knows they are not ready to govern or they would have won the election - pretty simple really.

As I said "you can fool some of the people" the only people Labour are fooling is themselves :D


Yep. just ramping up the pressure.
If they had won, it would have been Jeremy off to see the queen, which would have been interesting.
The Tories "won" by virtue of having most seats in parliament but, it seems like a hollow victory compared to Teresa's dream of a 100+ seat majority.
She may have won but, I dont think that too many bottles of champers were consumed at Tory HQ on election night.
There was a lot of knife sharpening going on in the back through, perhaps that was just the caterers getting supper ready :lol:
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