[Pumpetypump]

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:54 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think this demonstrates one of my biggest fears about this government. That the new poop gets stirred in with the old poop and then normalised as all ‘just poop’. That the degradation and corruption of our already imperfect politics becomes permanent or even that merely reverting to only the old failings looks like progress. There is an urgent need for Johnson’s style of politics and method of government to fail and be seen to fail, to borrow a phrase he has himself been using.

I worry about the perception of politics in this country, and the effort that goes into us all abandoning any sense of hope or optimism for any decency. For example, the sinister lie that has been sold to the masses is "they are all as bad as each other". Its a deliberate ploy to cover up appalling behaviour and its swallowed by millions in this country. It's an absolute fiction and really quite cunning. It does one of two things. Firstly you can shut down a debate or derail it by saying the line. Its meaningless and fictional but it's fantastic at stopping a conversation that isn't going how you'd like. Secondly it leads to widespread apathy about attempting change. After all, why bother seeking change when x, y and z parties are "just as bad".

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:02 pm  

I think people look to the “they are all the same” to cover up their own embarrassment at believing the incumbent party.

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:15 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

I worry about the perception of politics in this country, and the effort that goes into us all abandoning any sense of hope or optimism for any decency. For example, the sinister lie that has been sold to the masses is "they are all as bad as each other". Its a deliberate ploy to cover up appalling behaviour and its swallowed by millions in this country. It's an absolute fiction and really quite cunning. It does one of two things. Firstly you can shut down a debate or derail it by saying the line. Its meaningless and fictional but it's fantastic at stopping a conversation that isn't going how you'd like. Secondly it leads to widespread apathy about attempting change. After all, why bother seeking change when x, y and z parties are "just as bad".

Presumably your just generalising, your spot on though when you say all the parties are just as bad, as for certain individuals on here they cover up they're appalling behaviour at trying unsuccessfully to get a point across by using the same old ploy of using insults, is it really that important?

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:53 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think this demonstrates one of my biggest fears about this government. That the new poop gets stirred in with the old poop and then normalised as all ‘just poop’. That the degradation and corruption of our already imperfect politics becomes permanent or even that merely reverting to only the old failings looks like progress. There is an urgent need for Johnson’s style of politics and method of government to fail and be seen to fail, to borrow a phrase he has himself been using.

Pumpetypump wrote:

the sinister lie that has been sold to the masses is "they are all as bad as each other". Its a deliberate ploy to cover up appalling behaviour and its swallowed by millions in this country. It's an absolute fiction and really quite cunning.

chissitt wrote:

your spot on though when you say all the parties are just as bad,

You missed the point. It's a lie that they are all as bad as each other.

This government is the most corrupted, most cynical, most deceitful, most incompetent, most unsuited to high office of any in my lifetime. The cabinet of no talents is packed full of morons and chancers. To claim that we can't do better than this is simply untrue. Every other government we've had has been better than this.

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:25 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You missed the point. It's a lie that they are all as bad as each other.

This government is the most corrupted, most cynical, most deceitful, most incompetent, most unsuited to high office of any in my lifetime. The cabinet of no talents is packed full of morons and chancers. To claim that we can't do better than this is simply untrue. Every other government we've had has been better than this.

Pumpetypump wrote:

After all, why bother seeking change when x, y and z parties are "just as bad".

Don't think I've missed any point, there's part of the post I responded to, are you saying he's got it wrong too?
the other part of your quote is something of a bold statement to make, it's obviously based on experience but even so every other government we've had has been better than this, you've either got a very good memory or your trying to bluff your way through again

Re: Ukraine : Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:03 pm  

chissitt wrote:

Don't think I've missed any point, there's part of the post I responded to, are you saying he's got it wrong too?
the other part of your quote is something of a bold statement to make, it's obviously based on experience but even so every other government we've had has been better than this, you've either got a very good memory or your trying to bluff your way through again

Yeah - you;ve completely got it wrong

Read it again
The OP is saying that the biggest Lie/Myth is that they are all as bad as each other - When they're not
And the consequences of that being that it stifles conversations/debate as those people who believe it think everyone "Is just as bad" when they're not

Re: Ukraine : Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:26 pm  

chissitt wrote:

Presumably your just generalising, your spot on though when you say all the parties are just as bad, as for certain individuals on here they cover up they're appalling behaviour at trying unsuccessfully to get a point across by using the same old ploy of using insults, is it really that important?

“Their”

Re: Ukraine : Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:32 pm  

chissitt wrote:

Given that the European Union is made up of 27 different Countries it's hardly surprising they have taken the leading roll in sanctioning the Russians, also on the list is the second and third biggest countries in the world Canada and the USA, as well as Australia the 6th biggest
biggest country, do you genuinely believe we as a nation can compete with these countries, or is your chart in place specifically to make the country look bad.

Sanctions should be applied by the stronger more powerful nations and given the amount of Russian cash swilling around London, the UK should be higher on the list.
Mind you, as you rightly point out, "The EU" as a collective are always going to be higher up the list.
It would be more interesting to have say France and Germany listed independently as we would usually want to be "competing" with them.

On a side issue, it seem like The Tories are once again exaggerating (lying) about the UK "leading the world" over Ukraine.
Even for lyin' Boris, this is right up there with his "best" lies.

The UK's efforts over taking in displaced Ukrainians is absolutely disgraceful and they appear to be being treated only marginally better than those coming over in small boats.

They took great pleasure in suggesting that refugees could now apply for a visa on line. It's a long way from the proper welcome that these people are receiving elsewhere.

Re: Ukraine : Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:29 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sanctions should be applied by the stronger more powerful nations and given the amount of Russian cash swilling around London, the UK should be higher on the list.
Mind you, as you rightly point out, "The EU" as a collective are always going to be higher up the list.

The UK's efforts over taking in displaced Ukrainians is absolutely disgraceful and they appear to be being treated only marginally better than those coming over in small boats.

They took great pleasure in suggesting that refugees could now apply for a visa on line. It's a long way from the proper welcome that these people are receiving elsewhere.

Not quite sure about this, but I would have thought that the Russian cash swilling around London would belong to the Russians, and where as I'm as sure as I can be that some will be going to places it should not be, I doubt these oligarchs have got what they have by giving it away as substantially as you are implying.
With regards to the way the Ukrainian refugees have been treated I can understand to a point the need for the UK to be careful in their screening of these people regarding security, having said that the government are quick to point out they've done this that and tuther, and we were the first to introduce this and that yet shamefully can't get they're finger out and join the rest of the other countries when it comes to the humanitarian side of things, utterly disgraceful.

Re: Ukraine : Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:55 pm  

They point out what they have done but unfortunately on further investigation these statements turn out to be not the truth.