Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:18 pm  

http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/221695.html even with the ' financial clout ' , central support the hefty TV deals most of the Rah Rah premiership are heavily indebted to their owners . Saracens posted an operating loss of £5.9 million for 2012-13, taking their overall deficit for the last seven completed seasons to a staggering £32.7 million. Bath, meanwhile, lost £3.8 million last season. According the story Bath were shelling out 8.8M in players wages for the 12/13 season.

http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/221695.html even with the ' financial clout ' , central support the hefty TV deals most of the Rah Rah premiership are heavily indebted to their owners . Saracens posted an operating loss of £5.9 million for 2012-13, taking their overall deficit for the last seven completed seasons to a staggering £32.7 million. Bath, meanwhile, lost £3.8 million last season. According the story Bath were shelling out 8.8M in players wages for the 12/13 season.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:37 pm  

middleman wrote: http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/221695.html even with the ' financial clout ' , central support the hefty TV deals most of the Rah Rah premiership are heavily indebted to their owners . According the story Bath were shelling out 8.8M in players wages for the 12/13 season. Yeah but everyone on here wants the perfect business plan obviously it will never ever happen if they want the game to thrive, if people don't believe the owners of the top clubs in super league plus Salford can afford a bigger or even no cap they are either being ignorent or they don't want the game to move forward.

middleman wrote: http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/221695.html even with the ' financial clout ' , central support the hefty TV deals most of the Rah Rah premiership are heavily indebted to their owners . According the story Bath were shelling out 8.8M in players wages for the 12/13 season. Yeah but everyone on here wants the perfect business plan obviously it will never ever happen if they want the game to thrive, if people don't believe the owners of the top clubs in super league plus Salford can afford a bigger or even no cap they are either being ignorent or they don't want the game to move forward.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:39 pm  

The owners of the big clubs could spend more money buy they don't have to as they are doing just fine, that's all well and good on a personal level but it's stagnating ans killing the game.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:29 pm  

Mike87 wrote:

I may be wrong but haven't Leeds carnegie uni built that stand for the rhinos? Which included classrooms and a base for the uni to work from?

It was built in partnership with Leeds Met they put up roughly half the funding as did Leeds. But they also get, along with the facility, the naming rights for several years.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:36 pm  

Mike87 wrote:

Yeah but everyone on here wants the perfect business plan obviously it will never ever happen if they want the game to thrive, if people don't believe the owners of the top clubs in super league plus Salford can afford a bigger or even no cap they are either being ignorent or they don't want the game to move forward.

Really? What makes you think they can afford significantly more? Leeds made the biggest profit of any club in recent years a couple of years ago. It was, IIRC, £600k. It was way above normal but even going by that figure then presumably the most that clubs can currently spend extra is £600k.

The only other option is you think Leeds are ignoring some blatantly obvious form of additional income or are wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on unnecessary areas of spending.
Which is it?

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 pm  

Mike87 wrote:

The owners of the big clubs could spend more money buy they don't have to as they are doing just fine, that's all well and good on a personal level but it's stagnating ans killing the game.

What makes you think they can spend significantly more money?
If they could why don't they?
If Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield, Saints etc all have this money spare they're not using why don't they spend it on any number of areas that could improve either the club or first team performance?

As for the "stagnating" & "killing the game" comments I assume you're referring to players moving to Union or the NRL.
The NRL salary cap is roughly double the SL cap (taking into account the exchange rate). Now assuming money is the only factor in a players decision to go to the NRL, which it obviously isn't, SL clubs spending would need to double to match the NRL.
For Union, SL clubs would need to at least triple spending.

So, where are Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield going to find an additional £2-4m per year, every year. And even in the miraculous event they do what happens to the clubs that can't afford anything extra when they're £2-4m behind in spending.
Even in your scenario, we end up with a 6 team league.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:59 pm  

[quote="Him"]What makes you think they can spend significantly more money?
If they could why don't they?
If Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield, Saints etc all have this money spare they're not using why don't they spend it on any number of areas that could improve either the club or first team performance?

As for the "stagnating" & "killing the game" comments I assume you're referring to players moving to Union or the NRL.
The NRL salary cap is roughly double the SL cap (taking into account the exchange rate). Now assuming money is the only factor in a players decision to go to the NRL, which it obviously isn't, SL clubs spending would need to double to match the NRL.
For Union, SL clubs would need to at least triple spending.

So, where are Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield going to find an additional £2-4m per year, every year. And even in the miraculous event they do what happens to the clubs that can't afford anything extra when they're £2-4m behind in spending.
Even in your scenario, we end up with a 6 team league.[/quote]

So as I've said before looms like league will stay small fry forever and we all should get used to it.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:00 pm  

Him wrote:

Really? What makes you think they can afford significantly more? Leeds made the biggest profit of any club in recent years a couple of years ago. It was, IIRC, £600k. It was way above normal but even going by that figure then presumably the most that clubs can currently spend extra is £600k.

The only other option is you think Leeds are ignoring some blatantly obvious form of additional income or are wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on unnecessary areas of spending.
Which is it?

There is a pretty simple solution that doesn't involve colluding to exploit players.

If you cant spend significantly more, don't spend significantly more.

Leeds specifically would also have the option of not paying the RU club hundreds of thousands in management fees, they would have the option of not having £2m sitting in the bank, they would have the option of calling in the £2m the RU club owe them, they would have the option of Caddick putting more money in, they would have the option of building their business. All options for not exploiting players whilst also not going in to debt.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:10 pm  

Him wrote:

What makes you think they can spend significantly more money?
If they could why don't they?
If Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield, Saints etc all have this money spare they're not using why don't they spend it on any number of areas that could improve either the club or first team performance?

As for the "stagnating" & "killing the game" comments I assume you're referring to players moving to Union or the NRL.
The NRL salary cap is roughly double the SL cap (taking into account the exchange rate). Now assuming money is the only factor in a players decision to go to the NRL, which it obviously isn't, SL clubs spending would need to double to match the NRL.
For Union, SL clubs would need to at least triple spending.

So, where are Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield going to find an additional £2-4m per year, every year. And even in the miraculous event they do what happens to the clubs that can't afford anything extra when they're £2-4m behind in spending.
Even in your scenario, we end up with a 6 team league.

This thinking is just massively wrong. Its clearly wrong. Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Huddersfield, Salford can still only have 25 first team players, they can still only have 7 overseas players, and they still need to have 7 club developed players in that 25.

They couldn't sign every player, just the same amount. Every other player would need to negotiate with the other clubs, and if they other clubs don't have more money, don't offer them more money. Players can only sign the contracts they are offered. A level would be found.

Re: UK RL Salary Cap : Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:31 pm  

Mike87 wrote:

So as I've said before looms like league will stay small fry forever and we all should get used to it.

I don't know why you'd say that.
We have to grow at our own rate. Is it as quick as I'd like, no of course not. But just pretending we can suddenly compete with the money on offer in Union and the NRL is fantasy.
It's not a quick fix. It's decades of consistent hard & smart work that will get the sport to grow. Not just a hit and hope of getting rid of the SC and we'll just find the money.
We currently cannot compete with Union or the NRL in pure financial terms. It's just something we have to suck up and get on with working to overcome.
Pretending that the money is there to compete but we're just not spending it is just bizarre.