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Re: Sam Burgess : Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:02 pm  
DHM you are quite correct with your Armitage comment , the lad is playing well so pick him.
Whilst many on this foroum don't care for union I enjoy many of the internationals and the six nations.
It's ironic that on the week end we played the Australians at league, attendance approx twenty thousand ,over fifty thousand watched the barbarians game at twickenham . I watched most of that game, it was nothing more than a warm up match for the Aussie team.
I gave up on watching the all blacks in Chicago , it was not even a good training session .
The attendance at that game was over sixty thousand.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:34 pm  
Andy Gilder wrote:
Absolutely zero chance of him playing one position for his club and a completely different one for his country.


I am not so sure. If he is played by his club in the back row I do not see why England cannot play him at 12 because he really could be devastating wherever he plays. It would be a good learning curve to try a couple of positions.

I would play him at inside centre and agree with Sir Clive Woodward that he must join the England camp asap and be in the squad for the World Cup. At the very least he could provide from the bench sufficient impact to turn a game around in 10 minutes. However I think he will be a quick learner and and his positives will more than outweigh any lack of Union nous.

Mike Ford sees him as a forward

"Whatever happens, Ford has pledged not to dilute the strengths which have made Burgess a legend in league. “The way we are trying to play at Bath will suit Sam’s style and Sam’s skill-set. More than half the rugby league players to come across have been signed for what they can do in league, then changed as a union player. I’m pretty adamant that one thing I won’t do is change Sam. The gameplan will suit him and the 14 other people on the field. It’s not just about Sam. But I’d be stupid to put him on the wing, wouldn’t I?

“Maybe I am a coach who sees things differently to, say, Stuart Lancaster, who has to win an international and only gets one chance. I get 22 chances in the Premiership, so I can afford to experiment a bit and see what his best position is. I want the best 15 players on the field.”

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/30/sam-burgess-debut-back-row-bath-england


Jason Robinson sees him as an inside centre:

"There's no doubt in my mind that he'll play a massive part for England,".

"People ask, 'is he capable of doing it in such a short space of time?'.
"They're looking at 11 months until the Rugby World Cup. Can he play for England?
"My journey proves that it can be done. I came over in November and, by February, I was playing for England. In June I was on the Lions tour! I have no doubt Sam Burgess will be playing for England, it's just a case of when. It's going to be exciting.

"We've got Manu Tuilagi, who's probably England's first choice in the centre. Luther Burrell is a strong player, great going forward, but I think Sam has got something in him that even those two players don't have."

"I've not seen many players, if any, that pound for pound can physically hit people like he does.

"He's a very intimidating figure. He's one of the best in the world.
"It's a shame that Bath play so far away from where I live [in Huddersfield] because I'd be down there every week just looking for that collision."

He adds: "People have talked about him at back row, I've heard somebody say on the wing, but he's got to go straight into the centre.

"What Bath and hopefully England need to do is keep it simple. When I made the switch from league to union, the reason why I believe I did so well is I kept it simple. I did what came naturally to me and, as a result, I stood out from most others. That's the same with Sam.

"The first time I took the ball into a ruck, I got kicked to bits. That made me present the ball back a lot better. I think Sam will be a quick learner. He's going to come in, not as this superstar from the NRL but as a Yorkshire lad who loves rugby. He's got a new challenge.




Sir Clive Woodward says:

"One thing is for sure: Burgess is intent on making a good fist of it. He has signed for three years. This is not a short-term flit into another sport, a la Sonny Bill Williams, who has returned to the All Blacks fold after facing Burgess recently on rugby league terrain.
Burgess will be a success. It is only a question of how long it takes.

"The big question is, where do you play him? Most of the successful converts have either played on the wing or at full back. But Burgess does not have the pace to play in the back three. Nor do I see him being any better than our current crop of forwards — so he must be played at inside centre.

He cannot be involved in the autumn internationals because of injury, but Stuart Lancaster must bring him into the squad at the earliest opportunity. The midfield is the biggest question mark over the England starting XV. Its outcome after the autumn internationals and Six Nations will have a huge impact on the World Cup."

"Burgess must be encouraged to play his natural game, rather than try to mould himself overnight into a ‘textbook 12’. He will learn union in time, but it’s important it comes on top of what he already has. This is where Jason Robinson was so successful with England and Australia’s Israel Folau entered the sport in similar fashion.

They backed their skill-set and continued doing what they did best in league, effectively forcing opponents to adapt to them — not the other way round. England already have a physical midfield. They have been playing big guys like Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees and Manu Tuilagi; but no one comes bigger or more ferocious than Burgess. He’s not going to turn out like Mike Catt or Will Greenwood — both natural playmakers who relied on vision more than physicality — but he has the ability to draw in three or four players at a time. Burgess playing alongside Tuilagi would be interesting to watch!"

South Africa or New Zealand won’t be afraid of his size, but they will be afraid of his passing and off-loading. Many underestimate just how good league players’ basic skills are. If England can work out a way of exploiting that then they could be on to something very special. England have some solid options at 12, but none of them make you go ‘wow’.

That’s where Burgess is different. If Lancaster can slot him into that spot alongside a fly-half brave enough to stand flat, and with the footwork and touch to find him some clean air, then that 10-12 combination would ask a lot of any defence.

Burgess could be used to release the entire back line; this was the most significant effect of Sonny Bill Williams for the All Blacks.
Most players only get the chance to play in one World Cup and my concern is that he is held back until 2019. That would lead to a lot of ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’ if England go on to lose in the semi-final or the final next year. You have to throw everything at next year’s World Cup. This guy could be what England are missing.

I admire the culture Lancaster has created in the England camp, where you have to earn your stripes. But Burgess has earned his call-up with what he has already achieved in league. Would the other players want him there? Absolutely. When Robinson arrived he lifted the whole camp; he turned a very good team into a really scary team. You get no second chances at the World Cup.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2814942/Sam-Burgess-power-make-England-scary-Stuart-Lancaster-play-inside-centre.html


Sam Burgess says:

“I’m coming in as an outsider,” Burgess said. “I understand that. It is not going to be an easy transition. But I don’t lack belief. A lot of athletes believe in themselves, set themselves goals. I don’t think I am lacking in that. The weight of expectation does not bother me. I have learnt to do with it in Australian rugby league.”

Burgess also revealed that he had had several chats with former NSW Waratahs’ coach Michael Cheika, brother of a friend of Burgess, and believed him “to be the right man for the Wallabies … who can turn them around”. The media blitz lasted four hours. Burgess took it all in his stride. He is not easily fazed. One thing is for sure. He will make his mark in union, no matter where he plays.
Andy Gilder wrote:
Absolutely zero chance of him playing one position for his club and a completely different one for his country.


I am not so sure. If he is played by his club in the back row I do not see why England cannot play him at 12 because he really could be devastating wherever he plays. It would be a good learning curve to try a couple of positions.

I would play him at inside centre and agree with Sir Clive Woodward that he must join the England camp asap and be in the squad for the World Cup. At the very least he could provide from the bench sufficient impact to turn a game around in 10 minutes. However I think he will be a quick learner and and his positives will more than outweigh any lack of Union nous.

Mike Ford sees him as a forward

"Whatever happens, Ford has pledged not to dilute the strengths which have made Burgess a legend in league. “The way we are trying to play at Bath will suit Sam’s style and Sam’s skill-set. More than half the rugby league players to come across have been signed for what they can do in league, then changed as a union player. I’m pretty adamant that one thing I won’t do is change Sam. The gameplan will suit him and the 14 other people on the field. It’s not just about Sam. But I’d be stupid to put him on the wing, wouldn’t I?

“Maybe I am a coach who sees things differently to, say, Stuart Lancaster, who has to win an international and only gets one chance. I get 22 chances in the Premiership, so I can afford to experiment a bit and see what his best position is. I want the best 15 players on the field.”

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/30/sam-burgess-debut-back-row-bath-england


Jason Robinson sees him as an inside centre:

"There's no doubt in my mind that he'll play a massive part for England,".

"People ask, 'is he capable of doing it in such a short space of time?'.
"They're looking at 11 months until the Rugby World Cup. Can he play for England?
"My journey proves that it can be done. I came over in November and, by February, I was playing for England. In June I was on the Lions tour! I have no doubt Sam Burgess will be playing for England, it's just a case of when. It's going to be exciting.

"We've got Manu Tuilagi, who's probably England's first choice in the centre. Luther Burrell is a strong player, great going forward, but I think Sam has got something in him that even those two players don't have."

"I've not seen many players, if any, that pound for pound can physically hit people like he does.

"He's a very intimidating figure. He's one of the best in the world.
"It's a shame that Bath play so far away from where I live [in Huddersfield] because I'd be down there every week just looking for that collision."

He adds: "People have talked about him at back row, I've heard somebody say on the wing, but he's got to go straight into the centre.

"What Bath and hopefully England need to do is keep it simple. When I made the switch from league to union, the reason why I believe I did so well is I kept it simple. I did what came naturally to me and, as a result, I stood out from most others. That's the same with Sam.

"The first time I took the ball into a ruck, I got kicked to bits. That made me present the ball back a lot better. I think Sam will be a quick learner. He's going to come in, not as this superstar from the NRL but as a Yorkshire lad who loves rugby. He's got a new challenge.




Sir Clive Woodward says:

"One thing is for sure: Burgess is intent on making a good fist of it. He has signed for three years. This is not a short-term flit into another sport, a la Sonny Bill Williams, who has returned to the All Blacks fold after facing Burgess recently on rugby league terrain.
Burgess will be a success. It is only a question of how long it takes.

"The big question is, where do you play him? Most of the successful converts have either played on the wing or at full back. But Burgess does not have the pace to play in the back three. Nor do I see him being any better than our current crop of forwards — so he must be played at inside centre.

He cannot be involved in the autumn internationals because of injury, but Stuart Lancaster must bring him into the squad at the earliest opportunity. The midfield is the biggest question mark over the England starting XV. Its outcome after the autumn internationals and Six Nations will have a huge impact on the World Cup."

"Burgess must be encouraged to play his natural game, rather than try to mould himself overnight into a ‘textbook 12’. He will learn union in time, but it’s important it comes on top of what he already has. This is where Jason Robinson was so successful with England and Australia’s Israel Folau entered the sport in similar fashion.

They backed their skill-set and continued doing what they did best in league, effectively forcing opponents to adapt to them — not the other way round. England already have a physical midfield. They have been playing big guys like Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees and Manu Tuilagi; but no one comes bigger or more ferocious than Burgess. He’s not going to turn out like Mike Catt or Will Greenwood — both natural playmakers who relied on vision more than physicality — but he has the ability to draw in three or four players at a time. Burgess playing alongside Tuilagi would be interesting to watch!"

South Africa or New Zealand won’t be afraid of his size, but they will be afraid of his passing and off-loading. Many underestimate just how good league players’ basic skills are. If England can work out a way of exploiting that then they could be on to something very special. England have some solid options at 12, but none of them make you go ‘wow’.

That’s where Burgess is different. If Lancaster can slot him into that spot alongside a fly-half brave enough to stand flat, and with the footwork and touch to find him some clean air, then that 10-12 combination would ask a lot of any defence.

Burgess could be used to release the entire back line; this was the most significant effect of Sonny Bill Williams for the All Blacks.
Most players only get the chance to play in one World Cup and my concern is that he is held back until 2019. That would lead to a lot of ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’ if England go on to lose in the semi-final or the final next year. You have to throw everything at next year’s World Cup. This guy could be what England are missing.

I admire the culture Lancaster has created in the England camp, where you have to earn your stripes. But Burgess has earned his call-up with what he has already achieved in league. Would the other players want him there? Absolutely. When Robinson arrived he lifted the whole camp; he turned a very good team into a really scary team. You get no second chances at the World Cup.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2814942/Sam-Burgess-power-make-England-scary-Stuart-Lancaster-play-inside-centre.html


Sam Burgess says:

“I’m coming in as an outsider,” Burgess said. “I understand that. It is not going to be an easy transition. But I don’t lack belief. A lot of athletes believe in themselves, set themselves goals. I don’t think I am lacking in that. The weight of expectation does not bother me. I have learnt to do with it in Australian rugby league.”

Burgess also revealed that he had had several chats with former NSW Waratahs’ coach Michael Cheika, brother of a friend of Burgess, and believed him “to be the right man for the Wallabies … who can turn them around”. The media blitz lasted four hours. Burgess took it all in his stride. He is not easily fazed. One thing is for sure. He will make his mark in union, no matter where he plays.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:54 pm  
I don't care about Sam burgess anymore, he plays his rugby elsewhere now (quote the late prejudice Bill mclaren) nothing to do with rugbly league any more and nothing to do with Leeds Rhinos.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:59 pm  
Big Sam has made big impression at Bath and looks set for his RU debut this Friday despite just two weeks training. Live on BT Sport
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FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB'S DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESS THEN I DONT KNOW WHAT IS.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:02 pm  
Juan Cornetto wrote:
Big Sam has made big impression at Bath and looks set for his RU debut this Friday despite just two weeks training. Live on BT Sport

I'm trying but it's still hard
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Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:19 pm  
I must say that BT Sport coverage of the Aviva Premiership is so far ahead of Sky's coverage of Super League it's not funny. Educated debate and intelligent discussion in comparison to Sky's usual diet of screaming, shouting and balling over mountains made out of molehills.

Looking forward to seeing how Sam fares on his debut on Friday night.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:31 am  
William Eve wrote:
Looking forward to seeing how Sam fares on his debut on Friday night.


Against a 15 man defence with no 10m gap?

He'll run the ball in hard, perhaps occasionally flattening a would-be tackler before being engulfed. But not that often.
Defence-wise he'll put in the odd big hit. If he comes on at around 60 minutes he might make five or six tackles.

In the eyes of the headline writers, his will have been the outstanding contribution.

Enjoy.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:24 pm  
William Eve wrote:
I must say that BT Sport coverage of the Aviva Premiership is so far ahead of Sky's coverage of Super League it's not funny. Educated debate and intelligent discussion in comparison to Sky's usual diet of screaming, shouting and balling over mountains made out of molehills.

Looking forward to seeing how Sam fares on his debut on Friday night.


The camera work on Sky's coverage of SL is excellent, so is the in game editing and far outweighs any other UK company (Channel 9's coverage in Oz is unsurpassable). It's the so called 'experts' they employ to summarize the games that let their coverage down. The drag everything down to the intellectual level of your average Daily Mail reader.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:04 pm  
Which TV company was broadcasting the 4Ns from Aus to the Beeb? I thought the camera work was shocking.
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Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:58 pm  
Sky's game day coverage hits the same buzz-phrases and manufactured controversies as it has for 15 years. If it ever worked, it certainly doesn't work now. But the main players (producer, commentator, summarisor) are so entrenched there's no stopping them. Honestly think Sky's coverage is the single largest thing holding this game back in this country. The BBC's coverage, which was equally embarrassing in the French/Murphy days, has learned lessons, changed, and is absolutely miles ahead.
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