Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:50 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Watch it again. Flower started it. Hohaia then escalated it and Flower reacted appalingly. Hohaia wasn't the instigator but he got off lightly with 1 game.

Accordingly*

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:42 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Watch it again. Flower started it. Hohaia then escalated it and Flower reacted appalingly. Hohaia wasn't the instigator but he got off lightly with 1 game.

This is a red herring being thrown about predominantly by some Saints fans to try to absolve their player of any responsibility, YG, but I'm a little surprised you're peddling it too to be honest. What Flower did initially is something that happens in many, if not most, games in SL. In fact, as pointed out above, it happened several other times in this game alone and was worthy of no more than a penalty (and even that is debatable!). The first action that took it beyond what was acceptable, and for which he later received a ban, was Hohaia's. What Flower ultimately did was unacceptable but even so most people have been balanced enough to say his initial reaction was sort of understandable. No one has said the same of Hohaia's elbow to the face. To say that Flower started it is akin to saying the ref started it by blowing his whistle to begin the game! Players are not, and should not, be at liberty to police minor infringements during a game in any manner they like, and definitely not by running 10 metres or so to elbow someone in the face. The escalation of this incident was Hohaia's doing. Whilst that doesn't excuse Flower's behaviour, to try and lay all the blame at his door purely because he made the initial push is nothing short of ridiculous in the context of a game of rugby league!

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:25 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

This is a red herring being thrown about predominantly by some Saints fans to try to absolve their player of any responsibility, YG, but I'm a little surprised you're peddling it too to be honest. What Flower did initially is something that happens in many, if not most, games in SL. In fact, as pointed out above, it happened several other times in this game alone and was worthy of no more than a penalty (and even that is debatable!). The first action that took it beyond what was acceptable, and for which he later received a ban, was Hohaia's. What Flower ultimately did was unacceptable but even so most people have been balanced enough to say his initial reaction was sort of understandable. No one has said the same of Hohaia's elbow to the face. To say that Flower started it is akin to saying the ref started it by blowing his whistle to begin the game! Players are not, and should not, be at liberty to police minor infringements during a game in any manner they like, and definitely not by running 10 metres or so to elbow someone in the face. The escalation of this incident was Hohaia's doing. Whilst that doesn't excuse Flower's behaviour, to try and lay all the blame at his door purely because he made the initial push is nothing short of ridiculous in the context of a game of rugby league!

Excellent post.... Some posters do prefer to see things with just the one eye...

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:07 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

This is a red herring being thrown about predominantly by some Saints fans to try to absolve their player of any responsibility, YG, but I'm a little surprised you're peddling it too to be honest. What Flower did initially is something that happens in many, if not most, games in SL. In fact, as pointed out above, it happened several other times in this game alone and was worthy of no more than a penalty (and even that is debatable!). The first action that took it beyond what was acceptable, and for which he later received a ban, was Hohaia's. What Flower ultimately did was unacceptable but even so most people have been balanced enough to say his initial reaction was sort of understandable. No one has said the same of Hohaia's elbow to the face. To say that Flower started it is akin to saying the ref started it by blowing his whistle to begin the game! Players are not, and should not, be at liberty to police minor infringements during a game in any manner they like, and definitely not by running 10 metres or so to elbow someone in the face. The escalation of this incident was Hohaia's doing. Whilst that doesn't excuse Flower's behaviour, to try and lay all the blame at his door purely because he made the initial push is nothing short of ridiculous in the context of a game of rugby league!

I haven't tried to absolve Hohaia of any responsibility.
I did say in my post that he escalated the situation.
I said he got off lightly with his ban.
At no point have I ever said the blame lies purely at Flower's door.

I'm not sure how you have interpreted that as me trying to "peddle a red herring!"

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:11 pm  

Jeff the God of Biscuits wrote:

Accordingly*

So you condone his actions and feel he was right to react the way he did? If so, people like you need to stay away from rugby grounds as only a brainless thug would feel Flower acted "accordingly."

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:28 pm  

I don't have to look at it again.
You are referring to the push and shove incident some 25 meters back that was next to nothing and certainly not warranting a penalty against either player.
From there Flower chased the kick, was passed the ball and dropped it. At that point Hohaia, having run the 25 mtrs chasing Flower and not the play, smashed his elbow/forearm into Flowers jaw. Flower reacted as he did and was sent off.
Trouble is Hohaia was not sent off. What he did warranted a sending off in any game anywhere any time. The match officials both on and off the field messed up massively.
It is my personal opinion that Flower's sending off didn't lose Wigan the match it was equally just as much that Hohaia was not sent off when he should have been won the game for Saints.
Flower's sending off was the right decision, Hohaia not being sent off was the wrong decision.
IMO both teams should have been at 12 men for the remainder of the game.
We would then have had a good Grand Final and not the foregone conclusion that is was after 2-3mins,

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:38 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

I don't have to look at it again.
You are referring to the push and shove incident some 25 meters back that was next to nothing and certainly not warranting a penalty against either player.
From there Flower chased the kick, was passed the ball and dropped it. At that point Hohaia, having run the 25 mtrs chasing Flower and not the play, smashed his elbow/forearm into Flowers jaw. Flower reacted as he did and was sent off.
Trouble is Hohaia was not sent off. What he did warranted a sending off in any game anywhere any time. The match officials both on and off the field messed up massively.
It is my personal opinion that Flower's sending off didn't lose Wigan the match it was equally just as much that Hohaia was not sent off when he should have been won the game for Saints.
Flower's sending off was the right decision, Hohaia not being sent off was the wrong decision.
IMO both teams should have been at 12 men for the remainder of the game.
We would then have had a good Grand Final and not the foregone conclusion that is was after 2-3mins,

Presumably by "push and shove" you mean Flower hitting Hohaia in the back of the head and knocking him to the floor?

Those blinkers are out in force here.

[Pemps]

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:41 pm  

Are we really going over the Flower incident again?

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:42 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Presumably by "push and shove" you mean Flower hitting Hohaia in the back of the head and knocking him to the floor?

Those blinkers are out in force here.

So you feel that LH acted accordingly?

Re: Shaun Wane interview : Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:49 pm  

Wigan Peer wrote:

So you feel that LH acted accordingly?

No. He wrongly escalated the situation and was very lucky to get the ban he did. I've said that already.