Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:01 pm  

PopTart wrote:

If role models didn't affect kids behaviour there would be no swearing or bad behaviour.
I don't know many parents that teach their kid to swear or disrespect their elders or commit crime. They learn it partly through necessity in the crime example and partly through following others.
In the same way and reason that cigarette advertising is limited, if kids see a perceived "cool" figure doing something outside the norm, they will be tempted to emulate it, to become equally as cool.

It's not a matter of whether a parent teaches them right or wrong, though clearly that is 90%. Outside influences need to be understood too.
Accepting a rapist back in to a football club damages the community as a whole, unless there are measures to show how wrong that was and how damaging it has been for the player.
Bringing players in like that doesn't have to be a bad thing if handled correctly, but if the issue is ignored it will definitely affect people, and not only kids.

But kids only see what players do on the pitch. Their behaviour on the pitch is of far, far more importance in the context of being a role model to kids than anything off the pitch. Plus kids don't understand the impact or importance of those off-field things. And when they get to the age where they do then they're old enough to distinguish right from wrong, make their own decisions and not rely upon role models.
Also, kids repeat things they see and hear. Which is why they swear, get aggressive in games etc because it's encouraged by parents/coaches/other players etc. They aren't going to repeat indecent assault etc because a player has been done for it. They might if the atmosphere in which they live is one where women are treated in a certain fashion. But that's nothing to do with their favourite RL player.

If it were then kids in Hull who liked Ben Cockayne would have been going around supporting the EDL, kids in Leeds & St Helens who liked Leon Pryce, Chev Walker & Ryan Bailey would have been going around fighting, and kids in Warrington who liked Stuart Reardon would have gone around beating up their girlfriends. But that didn't happen. It's akin to saying violent video games encourage US school style shootings. They don't.

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:18 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If as a parent I am unable to instil correct values into my kids I have nobody else to blame but myself

If only that were true.
As a parent myself, I can assure you that from the age of about 5yrs onwards, us parents see less and less of our children, who are "influenced" more and more with each passing day by others.
This includes teachers, teachers aides, friends, non-friends, other parents, sports coaches, extra-circular tutors, older kids, siblings, cousins...the list goes on.....and that's before the 24/7/52 bombardment of information and mis-information.


No, Ferguson being given a contract isn't going to turn my young son into a wife-beater. That's a simplistic view. What Ferguson, a convicted indecent assaulter being given a pro contact does do is it contradicts the ideal of RL being an inclusive family sport with decent morals, an inclusive welcoming and friendly sport. It contradicts the "women in league" concept.
It's not just the women who we want in our sport, who we thank annually for their support and who we cherish that will see this contradiction. It is also the sponsors.
Is the "welfare" of a player who has had his fair share of second chances more important than that? Not in my opinion it's not.

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:09 am  

PopTart wrote:

If role models didn't affect kids behaviour there would be no swearing or bad behaviour.
I don't know many parents that teach their kid to swear or disrespect their elders or commit crime. They learn it partly through necessity in the crime example and partly through following others.
In the same way and reason that cigarette advertising is limited, if kids see a perceived "cool" figure doing something outside the norm, they will be tempted to emulate it, to become equally as cool.

It's not a matter of whether a parent teaches them right or wrong, though clearly that is 90%. Outside influences need to be understood too.
Accepting a rapist back in to a football club damages the community as a whole, unless there are measures to show how wrong that was and how damaging it has been for the player.
Bringing players in like that doesn't have to be a bad thing if handled correctly, but if the issue is ignored it will definitely affect people, and not only kids.

Kids will react to their surroundings and peer pressure more than anything else. How often can you actually hear a player swear given the level of crowd noise? Kids will always behave badly at some point its about stretching their limits reaching a point where they no longer feel comfortable. That has absolutely nothing to do the what happens on a rugby field.

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:23 am  

gutterfax wrote:

If only that were true.
As a parent myself, I can assure you that from the age of about 5yrs onwards, us parents see less and less of our children, who are "influenced" more and more with each passing day by others.
This includes teachers, teachers aides, friends, non-friends, other parents, sports coaches, extra-circular tutors, older kids, siblings, cousins...the list goes on.....and that's before the 24/7/52 bombardment of information and mis-information.


No, Ferguson being given a contract isn't going to turn my young son into a wife-beater. That's a simplistic view. What Ferguson, a convicted indecent assaulter being given a pro contact does do is it contradicts the ideal of RL being an inclusive family sport with decent morals, an inclusive welcoming and friendly sport. It contradicts the "women in league" concept.
It's not just the women who we want in our sport, who we thank annually for their support and who we cherish that will see this contradiction. It is also the sponsors.
Is the "welfare" of a player who has had his fair share of second chances more important than that? Not in my opinion it's not.

I completely disagree - as a parent of three children I didn't have a problem engaging with my kids it was about making the effort to understand how you can positively impact their life whilst giving them the breathing space to develop as an individual. The fact you struggle with this is more a reflection on you than it is society as a whole.

This concept of RL being a family sport is important part of family life is learning from mistakes, the "women in RL" is a red herring - there are a number of RL in NRL who have assaulted women and again I mention Greg Inglis, about whom I hear a not a squeak from you. This is about your dislike for Ferguson rather a moral crusade because if it is the latter you are a hypocrite of the highest order

[Jimmythecuckoo]

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:00 pm  

I dont think Catalans need or want him to be honest.

The Greg Bird experiment worked out and he was a great player for us. If you are classing Leon Pryce's time in France as a journey to redemption as well, certainly from the clubs perspective , I dont think that worked out.

I want the best players at Dragons, giving us the best chance to win something, but without making the club seem like a rehab centre for angry and awkward young men.

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The fact you struggle with this is more a reflection on you than it is society as a whole.

Nice, but I actually didn't say I struggled with anything, I simply pointed out that as children age, they engage with are engaged by outside influences and how we as parents manage this, influences how our kids are moulded.

Good for you have 3 young Kids by the way.....once they have fully developed and have "lived a little" outside the nest, then you can tell us how you've got on. Personally I have a 23yr old who despite my apparent "struggles" has not (AFAIK) turned out too bad. Uni completed, debt suitably saddled and setting of on life's journey trying to carve her own little bit of happiness......all whilst respecting herself and others, showing tolerance and unfortunately, following Chelsea FC. The last bit is down to her 2 older cousins who she grew up with......see my bit about incontrollable outside influences. I did manage to counter this and she still looks out for the Broncos results and shares my utter despair as to the basket case the club has become.
The Other one is a tad more tricky as he's only 14 weeks old......and I can assure you 100%, bringing him up with the same standards and morals of his big sister will be more difficult in the 21st Century than it was at the end of the last. This isn't because I "struggle"...it's because there is a far more intrusive media that is now part of our lives......no doubt I'll "struggle through"

All of which is pretty irrelevant when discussing giving a wayward player who now has a conviction for indecent assault getting yet another chance, by dodging UK border regulations by signing for a French team that play in the competition. I say No.......not because I fear for my sons future as a direct result, but because as a sport we need to make a stand. We got wall to wall coverage for the wrong reasons at the Grand Final and now Burgess is the poster boy for the other lot, the last thing we need is to be giving any limelight to pond life like Ferguson.

He's a wasted talent? So what...he isn't the first and he won't be the last, but the sport will survive without him.

Re: Blake Ferguson rejected by NRL: another Catalans coup? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:49 am  

gutterfax wrote:

Nice, but I actually didn't say I struggled with anything, I simply pointed out that as children age, they engage with are engaged by outside influences and how we as parents manage this, influences how our kids are moulded.

Good for you have 3 young Kids by the way.....once they have fully developed and have "lived a little" outside the nest, then you can tell us how you've got on. Personally I have a 23yr old who despite my apparent "struggles" has not (AFAIK) turned out too bad. Uni completed, debt suitably saddled and setting of on life's journey trying to carve her own little bit of happiness......all whilst respecting herself and others, showing tolerance and unfortunately, following Chelsea FC. The last bit is down to her 2 older cousins who she grew up with......see my bit about incontrollable outside influences. I did manage to counter this and she still looks out for the Broncos results and shares my utter despair as to the basket case the club has become.
The Other one is a tad more tricky as he's only 14 weeks old......and I can assure you 100%, bringing him up with the same standards and morals of his big sister will be more difficult in the 21st Century than it was at the end of the last. This isn't because I "struggle"...it's because there is a far more intrusive media that is now part of our lives......no doubt I'll "struggle through"

All of which is pretty irrelevant when discussing giving a wayward player who now has a conviction for indecent assault getting yet another chance, by dodging UK border regulations by signing for a French team that play in the competition. I say No.......not because I fear for my sons future as a direct result, but because as a sport we need to make a stand. We got wall to wall coverage for the wrong reasons at the Grand Final and now Burgess is the poster boy for the other lot, the last thing we need is to be giving any limelight to pond life like Ferguson.

He's a wasted talent? So what...he isn't the first and he won't be the last, but the sport will survive without him.

You are the one who is saying how difficult it is to bring kids up - not me.

The youngest of my kids is 22 he has a job with Morgan Stanley in the UK, the next oldest is a mechanical engineer working in the mines in Queensland he's 24 and my daughter (27) works in marketing for a well known Card manufacturer so they all have a bit of wool on their back and they all have managed to negotiate life and all its outside influences so far without needing to resort to any form of anti social behaviour. I didn't have any issues instilling a behavioural code and a sense of what it is to be a good citizen. It is not that difficult you just have to make the effort. RL played a big part in their younger days and it gave them an outlet.

I understand your point about Ferguson but you still haven't answered the point about Inglis - why is it OK for Inglis to keep playing but you seem unable to extend the same latitude to Ferguson?