Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:24 pm  

The quicker we look to putting International RL at the forefront of our sport rather than two domestic competitions the better chance of progression in terms of keeping high class players and interest in our sport

Re: Sam Burgess : Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:13 pm  

Lawrie L wrote:

The quicker we look to putting International RL at the forefront of our sport rather than two domestic competitions the better chance of progression in terms of keeping high class players and interest in our sport

Do you think losing the Challenge Cup would cause anyone to give a s**t about international RL? I'm not convinced. The top RU clubs manage 3 competitions. It doesn't stop them pulling in 70k+ per home international 5-6 times a year, and it won't stop them shifting a million or so World Cup tickets. They are able to do this because the clubs recognize that the international game is where the money is. RL clubs won't recognize this, because it isn't true in RL.

There is only one country in this hemisphere that is able to compete reasonably consistently at something approaching Test level. It's very hard to build a thriving international scene out of that.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:48 am  

El Diablo wrote:

Do you think losing the Challenge Cup would cause anyone to give a s**t about international RL? I'm not convinced. The top RU clubs manage 3 competitions. It doesn't stop them pulling in 70k+ per home international 5-6 times a year, and it won't stop them shifting a million or so World Cup tickets. They are able to do this because the clubs recognize that the international game is where the money is. RL clubs won't recognize this, because it isn't true in RL.

There is only one country in this hemisphere that is able to compete reasonably consistently at something approaching Test level. It's very hard to build a thriving international scene out of that.

Without slamming the past the Challenge Cup is almost becoming a burden. When two classic teams can't sell out Wembley it does say a lot.

Let's be honest here, where does RU largely make its money? Internationals

Now yes the new European tournament has arrived and is spangly and new but that takes interest away from the domestic leagues which aren't cracking flags.

Sam Burgess hasn't gone to Union to win the Premiership, nor the European cup. He's simply gone to try and win that World Cup in a year's time

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:01 am  

Lawrie L wrote:

Without slamming the past the Challenge Cup is almost becoming a burden. When two classic teams can't sell out Wembley it does say a lot.

Let's be honest here, where does RU largely make its money? Internationals

Now yes the new European tournament has arrived and is spangly and new but that takes interest away from the domestic leagues which aren't cracking flags.

Sam Burgess hasn't gone to Union to win the Premiership, nor the European cup. He's simply gone to try and win that World Cup in a year's time

I disagree I like Burgess has gone to challenge himself - like Hayne in the NRL. Having heard him speak I don't think the WC is his priority. He wanted to return to England and this gave him the best opportunity to do that.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:19 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I disagree I like Burgess has gone to challenge himself - like Hayne in the NRL. Having heard him speak I don't think the WC is his priority. He wanted to return to England and this gave him the best opportunity to do that.

I honestly believe when Union came knocking the prospect of representing his country on home soil in sold out stadiums was the first thing that was sold to him

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:24 am  

Lawrie L wrote:

I honestly believe when Union came knocking the prospect of representing his country on home soil in sold out stadiums was the first thing that was sold to him

Yes but that happens regardless of the world cup and he was playing in front of as many big crowds in Sydney as he would be for England the average RU club crowd isn't massive Bath's capacity is only 12k. Last season he played in 9 games where the crowd > 20k and 4 games where the crowd was > 40k he will not get anything like those crowds in the premiership.

I believe he wants to prove something to himself - his goal will be the international set up but I don't think that is his primary motivation. I can't see him ever going back to Australia.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:35 am  

Lawrie L wrote:

Without slamming the past the Challenge Cup is almost becoming a burden. When two classic teams can't sell out Wembley it does say a lot.

Let's be honest here, where does RU largely make its money? Internationals

Now yes the new European tournament has arrived and is spangly and new but that takes interest away from the domestic leagues which aren't cracking flags.

Sam Burgess hasn't gone to Union to win the Premiership, nor the European cup. He's simply gone to try and win that World Cup in a year's time

I think you missed my point a bit here. There is truth in all those statements (well, hard to know about the last one, you'd have to ask Sam Burgess - off camera...). RU does make its money in internationals. RL does not. And it doesn't fail to make money in internationals because of the Challenge Cup. It fails to make money in internationals because the international scene is not competitive enough. The only teams that we can get excited about beating are on the other side of the world. There are only really 2 teams who can win a WC, with one (England) who you could say were an outside bet to pull off an upset. That has been true for a long time. Getting rid of the Challenge Cup would not fix those problems.

I think Sam Burgess is a pretty honest bloke, and I also think he recognises the size of the challenge he's just set himself. His talk at the moment is of trying to pin down a spot in Bath's team, before he starts thinking about England. That is not going to be easy at all.

I don't think he'll feature in the next World Cup. If he applies himself (as I'm sure he will) he could play a big part in the next one.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:33 am  

Indeed.

Not quite sure how scrapping the Challenge Cup and having three or four games of England v France or Wales that turn into blowouts is going to bolster the international RL scene.

Some excellent work going on at the moment - albeit on a very small scale - in getting international RL played between new countries where the sport is looking to grow from the grass roots up. That's the way forward in creating a vibrant international scene, but it's going to take time and patience.

Two things RL fans aren't exactly known for having.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:55 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Indeed.

Not quite sure how scrapping the Challenge Cup and having three or four games of England v France or Wales that turn into blowouts is going to bolster the international RL scene.

Some excellent work going on at the moment - albeit on a very small scale - in getting international RL played between new countries where the sport is looking to grow from the grass roots up. That's the way forward in creating a vibrant international scene, but it's going to take time and patience.

Two things RL fans aren't exactly known for having.

Spot on.

I don't see how scrapping the Challenge Cup and getting rid of RL's biggest annual day would benefit RL. It also wouldn't help making RL even more one dimensional with only 1 chance for silverware. Would Cas have had such a good season without the carrot of the Challenge Cup?
If anything I think we need more cup competitions alongside more internationals.

I don't see why an inability to sell out Wembley "says a lot" about the Challenge Cup when 2 teams with a larger combined support can't sell out a smaller, closer stadium for the "pinnacle of the season". Not to mention the Cup Final generally gets a higher attendance than the Grand Final.

Re: Sam Burgess : Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:22 pm  

Sam Burgess is the best player from our country to have ever played in the Australian competition,I would even go as far to say that he is the best English player ever to play the game

I'm hoping for a cameo return to the Bulls for his last season before retirement