Re: First Cas Try : Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:13 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

It was deffo forward and there were a few other mistakes not picked up that on balance probably wouldn't have saved Widnes but would have kept the nuetral happier..
..dixon catching from in field and landing behind the try line not given as a dropout, HUBY & about 2 other Cas forwards infringing the 10metres (AFTER Bentham had told them to keep the 10) which meant that the Widnes winger looked up at them and missed the ball Cas then scored sstraight on the next possesion (similar was given as a penalty when Australia scored against us when Tomkins dropped it in the 4 nations)
Cas were easy winners without them though

OK on the replay the pass to Dorn did look a touch forward, but if you'd checked the Dixon incident, he did catch the ball when running from the field of play, but he ran back into the field of play and was well over the line when he passed to Luke Dorn who was bursting through and may well have run the length of the field, at the Cas end where we were well placed to see, we were bemused by the decision and the ref got it wrong, but we felt Cas had been wronged and not Widnes. On the day, we felt the ref gave good and bad decisions both ways, so probably evened itself out in the end.

Re: First Cas Try : Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:03 am  

danny boy1 wrote:

OK on the replay the pass to Dorn did look a touch forward, but if you'd checked the Dixon incident, he did catch the ball when running from the field of play, but he ran back into the field of play and was well over the line when he passed to Luke Dorn who was bursting through and may well have run the length of the field, at the Cas end where we were well placed to see, we were bemused by the decision and the ref got it wrong, but we felt Cas had been wronged and not Widnes. On the day, we felt the ref gave good and bad decisions both ways, so probably evened itself out in the end.

I was only highlighting the favourable decisions to Cas, that's why I said on balance they wouldn't have effected the result as CAS WERE EASY WINNERS..jeez you need to start reading & understanding what people write..BTW I'm a Hull fan and have a soft spot for Cas anyways..
Oh and the pass to Dorn was a lot more than a smidge forward, it was a good metre forward..just so you know..

Re: First Cas Try : Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:42 pm  

Watched it again last night and that pass was definitely well forward and the one to Finn could have been given too. What's really annoying is that Silverwood was right there when Clark made the first pass and still didn't give it. That being said, Cas were by far the better team and well deserved their win. Good luck to them at Wembley, I hope they win it - and I think they will.

Re: First Cas Try : Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:03 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

it was a good metre forward.

If you're measuring forward passes in length you aren't understanding the rule. It doesn't matter at all whether the ball travels forwards in relation to the ground (most passes do assuming players are moving when they pass)

Re: First Cas Try : Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:56 pm  

Grimmy wrote: If you're measuring forward passes in length you aren't understanding the rule. It doesn't matter at all whether the ball travels forwards in relation to the ground (most passes do assuming players are moving when they pass) Quite right. It's about direction and therefore was about 17˚ forward relative to a perpendicular line between the player and the touch line. More or less anyhow. From my viewpoint. On the telly...... On the subject of forward passes, this little clip always made me chuckle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSa00sPKAak

Grimmy wrote: If you're measuring forward passes in length you aren't understanding the rule. It doesn't matter at all whether the ball travels forwards in relation to the ground (most passes do assuming players are moving when they pass) Quite right. It's about direction and therefore was about 17˚ forward relative to a perpendicular line between the player and the touch line. More or less anyhow. From my viewpoint. On the telly...... On the subject of forward passes, this little clip always made me chuckle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSa00sPKAak

Re: First Cas Try : Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:56 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

If you're measuring forward passes in length you aren't understanding the rule. It doesn't matter at all whether the ball travels forwards in relation to the ground (most passes do assuming players are moving when they pass)

I know what the rule is and the ball was passed forward, momentum or not. from a visual POV the hands should be presented backwards or at least in line when passing (though not always an accurate indicator)
what you can measure is how fast the ball was passed, any rotation & at what angle, the relative direction/speed of both players, wind speed and that would be how you relatively accurately judge a forward pass. It was a metre forward in relation to how fast both players were running forward (or not in the case of the passer)
But considering your smart-ass comment you'd know that already

Re: First Cas Try : Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:28 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

...
what you can measure is how fast the ball was passed,

Irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer, in the instant the ball leaves the hands. It doesn't matter if he passes it slow or fast

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

...any rotation

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if rotates not at all, or like a pulsar.

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

...& at what angle,

Not relevant, the only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer. The angle could be anything, depending which way he is facing, which way he is moving (if at all), but it doesn't matter

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

...the relative direction/speed of both players,

Not relevant. The only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer. His speed doesn't matter, nor does the speed of the other player.

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

..wind speed

Not relevant. The only relevant moment is the instant the ball leaves the hands. Any effect caused after that by the wind acting on the ball is not taken into account, if the ball was legally passed not forwards, and then a sudden gust of wind blew it forward 50 metres, that is still not a forward pass.

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

.and that would be how you relatively accurately judge a forward pass.

So QED, it actually wouldn't.

Re: First Cas Try : Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:47 pm  

Who cares Castleford where better overall. The try should have been checked on the video, as did look well forward from the stands. I was in a very good postion too.

Re: First Cas Try : Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:10 pm  

OFFTHECUFF wrote:

Who cares Castleford where better overall. The try should have been checked on the video, as did look well forward from the stands. I was in a very good postion too.

No point in checking for a forward pass on the screen - it isn't done in RL, but is in RU. It SHOULD be in RL too and kicking the ball to dead should be like RU too - hand over from where the ball was kicked. Not having a go at Cas here because we were doing the same in the first half, but where is the skill in hoofing the ball 60+ yards into dead so you can pin the opposition in their own 20? Boring tactic which will kill the game if not checked.

Re: First Cas Try : Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:40 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer, in the instant the ball leaves the hands. It doesn't matter if he passes it slow or fast

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if rotates not at all, or like a pulsar.

Not relevant, the only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer. The angle could be anything, depending which way he is facing, which way he is moving (if at all), but it doesn't matter

Not relevant. The only thing that matters is whether the hands propelled the ball not forwards of the passer. His speed doesn't matter, nor does the speed of the other player.

Not relevant. The only relevant moment is the instant the ball leaves the hands. Any effect caused after that by the wind acting on the ball is not taken into account, if the ball was legally passed not forwards, and then a sudden gust of wind blew it forward 50 metres, that is still not a forward pass.

So QED, it actually wouldn't.

QED, you don't know what you're talking about and it is all relevant in showing accurately whether the ball was passed 'forward' or not (though i realise this would never happen anyways).
Of course just visually looking and assessing the relative speed of the passer against the receiver (hence why the ball travels forward and isn't a forward pass) is the best way but understanding of why from fans & officials, (players to a lesser degree) means we would not be in a position of 'forwaaaard' being shouted by fans when it isn't and referees giving forward passes when they previously haven't (despite the obvious hand position clue)

But I'm sure you're well versed in the science of such to debunk all that properly rather than your inaacurate ramblings. The pass is acted out by the passer, any spin/rotation/moment from when it leaves the players hands impacts as to whether the pass relative to the catcher has gone forward..If you don't want to accept that then that's up to you..