Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:20 am  

I don't even think its last minute - the ability to change direction comes if you give yourself space to start with. Too many centres start too wide in the first place. If you come inside a bit you are able to get earlier ball by definition, and give your inside men more options into the bargain - its one of the things Jamie Lyon does so well.

OTOH if you then simply run diagonally towards your wing every time you'll do a Joel Moon, and just run the winger out of space. So its a combination of where you get the ball and what you do with it.

As you say, the worst thing anybody can do at the highest level is stand and wait for someone else to make you the space.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:24 am  

I'd just add that the last problem was glaringly obvious when GB got mullered by Australia in Brisbane a few years ago. Everybody was waiting for someone else to 'do something'. GB looked short of numbers every time they moved the ball wide, as the outside backs just stood and waited for something to happen. The halfbacks (McGuire & Horne) were reluctant to run with the ball for whatever reason, so the whole back division looked awful.

I remember people saying how 'well' the forwards did and thinking that was cr*p as well - Morley aside nobody matched the Aussies physically, and no forwards were acting as dummy runners. It was like watching a bunch of schoolkids trying to play RL.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:19 am  

Side to face Samoa announced apparently-

S. Tomkins
Charley
Shenton
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G. Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
Farrell
J. Tomkins
Westerman


Clarke
Ferres
T. Burgess
Hill

No place for the best 13 on the planet??

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:41 am  

Swoggy Loiner wrote:

Side to face Samoa announced apparently-

S. Tomkins
Charley
Shenton
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G. Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
Farrell
J. Tomkins
Westerman


Clarke
Ferres
T. Burgess
Hill

No place for the best 13 on the planet??

Just heard on radio that he has pulled out with a quad injury.Same old story, great player but too many injuries.

Back row looks distinctly average at best. It may be enough against the Samoans but not against the big 2. Scratching my head as to how Joel Tomkins has walked straight back into the starting 13.Back line is as expected although i would have like to have seen Tomkins and Widdop as halves and Zak at FB.Also think Joe Burgess deserved a spot over Charnley.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:50 am  

Swoggy Loiner wrote:

Side to face Samoa announced apparently-

S. Tomkins
Charley
Shenton
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G. Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
Farrell
J. Tomkins
Westerman


Clarke
Ferres
T. Burgess
Hill

No place for the best 13 on the planet??

He is always injured - he only plays the big games for Wigan and England - bet he plays against Australia

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:57 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

He is always injured - he only plays the big games for Wigan and England - bet he plays against Australia

thats what I thought. Picks up a lot of injuries doesn't he. Though I would rather have him 100% for Aus

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:39 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Scratching my head as to how Joel Tomkins has walked straight back into the starting 13.

Not seen him play at all this year so hard to tell, but to do it after a handful of games back in league after a couple of years looking tremendously ordinary as a Union centre must mean he's played some trememndous football for Wigan.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:52 am  

DHM wrote:

Not seen him play at all this year so hard to tell, but to do it after a handful of games back in league after a couple of years looking tremendously ordinary as a Union centre must mean he's played some trememndous football for Wigan.

In fairness, I watched him play 3 times at the back end of the year and he was probably the best back-row on the park in all 3. Defended well and with a bit of aggression, and carried the ball strongly.

I think a bigger problems was a lack of depth that meant the door was still open to somebody returning to the sport so late. If 3 or 4 players had really put a marker down over the rest of the season, he would be setting his alarm to watch on Sky. Many people have said he's lucky to be there, but really I can only think of Carl Ablett who is unlucky not to be.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:17 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

....Back line is as expected although i would have like to have seen Tomkins and Widdop as halves and Zak at FB.Also think Joe Burgess deserved a spot over Charnley.

Hardaker misses out as Smith and Widdop is probably best half back pairing and as Tomkins must play, that only leave Full Back for him. Not sure that you'd use Hardaker in the centres either.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:38 pm  

wertyuio wrote:

Hardaker misses out as Smith and Widdop is probably best half back pairing and as Tomkins must play, that only leave Full Back for him. Not sure that you'd use Hardaker in the centres either.

You would certainly have him before Charnley though. Charnley is garbage.