Schoey's England 17 : Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:59 pm  

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Joe Burgess
3. Dan Sarginson
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Matty Smith
8. James Graham
9. Josh Hodgson
10. George Burgess
11. Elliot Whitehead
12. Joel Tomkins
13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. Daryl Clark
15. Stefan Ratchford
16. Tom Burgess
17. Chris Hill

I've read a lot of comments on social media, especially from Saints and Warrington fans that this side he has picked further proves how much of a to$$er he is. I don't think that's a bad side at all, maybe a couple of changes here and there but generally on the money. Thoughts??

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:17 pm  

Whilst I think picking Joe Burgess for the squad is ok, I don't think he should be starting. He definitely looks like he could have an international future but he's only at the end of his first full year at SL level and we have two very strong choices in Hall and Charnley to play ATM. Going over there with the squad will be a good learning experience for him but save his debut for home soil if possible. Messed Ryan Atkins up something rotten last time we went to Oz and Briscoe was dragged off at halftime once over here vs Australia, no need to put Burgess in that potential situation, he's still got a bit of learning to do yet. Would even play Hardaker on the wing in front of him if an injury does occur to one of the aforementioned starters.

Shenton surely has to be in before Sarginson. Ratchford has played loose this year but having him on the bench makes it look too lightweight for me, whilst are 2nd row options aren't amazing I've rather put one of Ferres or Farrell on the bench instead of him.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:39 pm  

I'd have Hardaker at Full back as he's a better defender than Tomkins and move him into the halves with Widdop. Agree about Ferres and Farrell, I'd pick one in the 13 before Joel Tomkins.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:49 am  

Has Tomkins spent any time at 6 this year? If he has I would consider moving him to 6 instead of Widdop. I've yet to see Widdop make much of the chances he's had in an England shirt. I'd keep Smith at 7 either way, he's a no nonsense link player who gets the ball wide rather than doing to much himself. Good balance with a running 6, and a good kicking game.

Unless Widdop has been on fire in the NRL (I wouldn't know) I would have Ratchford ahead of him.

I would not be fussed either way with Charnley/Burgess on that wing. Happy enough with either. I'd put Shenton in ahead of Sarginson.

I'd keep J. Tomkins in, from the squad we've got. Ferres has been out of form, but at least has a physical presence, Farrell is just not an international player in a million years. Bench probably needs another forward. Can't have Clark and a halfback really.

Hardaker
Burgess
Watkins
Shenton
Hall

S Tomkins
Smith

Hill
Hodgson
Graham
Whitehead
Tomkins
O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
Clark
T. Burgess
Ferres

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:07 am  

El Diablo wrote:

Has Tomkins spent any time at 6 this year? If he has I would consider moving him to 6 instead of Widdop. I've yet to see Widdop make much of the chances he's had in an England shirt. I'd keep Smith at 7 either way, he's a no nonsense link player who gets the ball wide rather than doing to much himself. Good balance with a running 6, and a good kicking game.

Unless Widdop has been on fire in the NRL (I wouldn't know) I would have Ratchford ahead of him.

I would not be fussed either way with Charnley/Burgess on that wing. Happy enough with either. I'd put Shenton in ahead of Sarginson.

I'd keep J. Tomkins in, from the squad we've got. Ferres has been out of form, but at least has a physical presence, Farrell is just not an international player in a million years. Bench probably needs another forward. Can't have Clark and a halfback really.

Hardaker
Burgess
Watkins
Shenton
Hall

S Tomkins
Smith

Hill
Hodgson
Graham
Whitehead
Tomkins
O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
Clark
T. Burgess
Ferres

Would agree with this, except the Farrell view. I would have Farrell in long before Joel Tomkins, Ferres, Whitehead, or O'Loughlin. Other than that agree with it.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:00 am  

Gotcha wrote:

Would agree with this, except the Farrell view. I would have Farrell in long before Joel Tomkins, Ferres, Whitehead, or O'Loughlin. Other than that agree with it.

I like Farrell for his work rate. I just think he's too lightweight for test matches.

I suspect we'll see whether I'm right.

I still have reservations about Whitehead defensively, but he does bring a bit of flair and something different in attack. He's a risk, but I'd take that risk.

O'Loughlin is a great divider of opinion, like Sinfield. I think he's a terrific player though.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:17 am  

Hardaker
Burgess
Watkins
Shenton
Hall

Widdop
Tomkins

Hill
Hodgson
Graham
Whitehead
Ferres
O'Loughlin

Clark
J Tomkins
T Burgess
G Burgess

I would go with the Burgess bros. off the bench.Hill and Graham are of high enough quality to start big and match the Kiwis and Aussies and to have the 2 brothers coming on when the opposition are tiring a bit could give us an edge.

As others have said, Farrell is a fine SL player but is just too small for the international game, same bracket as JJB for me. and i also think that Mac will stick with Ferres as he had a very good WC.Our second row is our weakest area imo.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:18 am  

Put Burgess and Roby in the pack and we'd look very competitive. However, without Burgess our BR looks w@nk and generally lighweight, and we'll lose a huge amount around the middle without Roby.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:04 am  

El Diablo wrote:

I like Farrell for his work rate. I just think he's too lightweight for test matches.

I suspect we'll see whether I'm right.

I still have reservations about Whitehead defensively, but he does bring a bit of flair and something different in attack. He's a risk, but I'd take that risk.

O'Loughlin is a great divider of opinion, like Sinfield. I think he's a terrific player though.

Farrell runs more metres than any of the other second row forwards selected, also his defensive record of only 12 missed tackles all season is very impressive, although he can give a few silly penalties away.

Re: Schoey's England 17 : Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:17 am  

El Diablo wrote:

Has Tomkins spent any time at 6 this year? If he has I would consider moving him to 6 instead of Widdop. I've yet to see Widdop make much of the chances he's had in an England shirt. I'd keep Smith at 7 either way, he's a no nonsense link player who gets the ball wide rather than doing to much himself. Good balance with a running 6, and a good kicking game.

Unless Widdop has been on fire in the NRL (I wouldn't know) I would have Ratchford ahead of him.

I would not be fussed either way with Charnley/Burgess on that wing. Happy enough with either. I'd put Shenton in ahead of Sarginson.

I'd keep J. Tomkins in, from the squad we've got. Ferres has been out of form, but at least has a physical presence, Farrell is just not an international player in a million years. Bench probably needs another forward. Can't have Clark and a halfback really.

Hardaker
Burgess
Watkins
Shenton
Hall

S Tomkins
Smith

Hill
Hodgson
Graham
Whitehead
Tomkins
O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
Clark
T. Burgess
Ferres

I'd go with this BUT would have Farrell in there above his team mate...I really do not see what J.Tomkins offers?? Farrell runs good lines and this makes up for his lack of size IMO