Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:57 pm  

That has to be the most ridiculous comment I have heard GH come out with.
His he trying to tell me the teams of 07 & 08 with top class players like Senior, Donald, Webb, Lauitiiti plus Maguire, Burrow, Sinfield, JJB, Peacock, Kylie, Bails at the peak of their powers would be not match for the class of 2015. Lost a lot of respect for him now. A man who has just seen the season ticket sales and is panicking.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:17 pm  

It's a load o bo!!!ocks anyway. I haven't heard Sinny, McGuire, JJB, Burrow, or Bailey talking about retiring at the end of next season. If they all joined Peacock and Kylie what would we be putting out on the field? Outside backs would be okay, but beyond that? Last chance to see the "Legends"? Do they not realise that by flogging once great players well beyond their retirement time there is a very real danger all we will remember of the likes of Danny Mcguire will be a portly sloth who can't keep up with play. JJB has gone from the heart, spirit and soul of a great team to a gaff prone penalty machine in the minds of some fans and Bailey's actually becoming the pantomime baffoon other clubs fans have been bagging for a decade.

Do we actually ahve anything exciting waiting to be unleashed when these guys do finally make way? Or is our next first team currently on loan and struggling to make it into Bradford and London's reserves?

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:18 pm  

DHM wrote:

It's a load o bo!!!ocks anyway. I haven't heard Sinny, McGuire, JJB, Burrow, or Bailey talking about retiring at the end of next season. If they all joined Peacock and Kylie what would we be putting out on the field? Outside backs would be okay, but beyond that? Last chance to see the "Legends"? Do they not realise that by flogging once great players well beyond their retirement time there is a very real danger all we will remember of the likes of Danny Mcguire will be a portly sloth who can't keep up with play. JJB has gone from the heart, spirit and soul of a great team to a gaff prone penalty machine in the minds of some fans and Bailey's actually becoming the pantomime baffoon other clubs fans have been bagging for a decade.

Do we actually ahve anything exciting waiting to be unleashed when these guys do finally make way? Or is our next first team currently on loan and struggling to make it into Bradford and London's reserves?

This is the flaw in marketing it as "roll up, roll up, come see these specimens before they disappear forever" - you actually end up (as a new ticket holder) potentially seeing a poorer version and thus actually less likely to "be remembering them in 50 years". You'll more think, "well, what was all the fuss about"? For instance, having had a season ticket for just 2 years, I will remember and appreciate JP more for 2013 than 2014. But I suspect some of you longer-termers might remember the 2010 or 2011 with more fondness.

In reality, if the 2015 versions of these guys are all you see, will you actually rave on about them in the future? I love Sinners; this started probably around '05 / '06 when I had been at uni in Leeds a couple of years, watched on TV and he never seemed to miss his kicks. I remember saying to friends then and now that if I had my last tenner and had to choose between Sinfield making a conversion or Big Al (Shearer) who I saw weekly, first hand for 6 years scoring a penalty, my impression was that Sinners was the safer bet to put my money on.

Watching him live in 2013 I realised he does miss and wasn't a machine, but still idolise and love him because of what I saw before from afar. 2014 overall was noticeably average compared to 2013. If 2015 and then 2016 continue that way, I will have to think back to make myself remember why I idolised him, as the reality will be that for 3 consecutive years I watched my once superman become average and unspectacular.

Now, if all I saw of someone like him was 2015 or 2016 I wouldn't have that 'memory bank' to fall back on and miss what the fuss was about. Better to rue something good ending a season too soon, than 2 years of seeing it slowly rot away in front of your eyes.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:59 pm  

Seriously though how many single cell organisms does GH think he has on the fan base for them to buy this diatribe about 2015?

I guess we'll find out with season ticket sales, right guys?

He he

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:00 pm  

Two Words. Ellery Hanley.

Was good for Leeds, but was great for Wigan and they knew when to get rid.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:06 pm  

I'm not joking, anyone who falls for this laughable marketing guff deserves to be fleeced.

It's the last time you can see them purely because JP (37 when it all kicks off) is retiring. That's all it amounts to.

This team badly needs strengthening particularly with a longer season and a more intense in that league campaign looming. And Adam Cuthbertson is no work-horse front-rower either.

5th might be regarded as an optimistic view considering the 6th placed finish in a weaker competition this time. I expect Catalan, Hull and Salford (all below us) to be MUCH stronger in 2015.

The clean-sweep he talks of was there for the taking this year....until someone took their eye off the ball and gifted 4 points to the two relegated teams.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:07 pm  

Stability is bollox - look at Arsenal, same coach for years seldom win anything, Fergie was successful because he was prepared to make very difficult decisions about star players e.g. Beckham - neither GH or McDermott are prepared to do that. Fergie would not have retained Sinfield, McGuire, JJB, Bailey etc.

I would be prepared to place a sizeable bet that Peacock is still trotting around in 2016.

Look at the NRL how many coaches stay anywhere longer than 3/4 years? There is only so many times the same group of players can respond to the same message - either change the coach or the players.

The core of the group is in decline and you have an owner and a coach who don't have the balls to make the changes that are required to maintain the highest levels of quality.

The fact the owner is spouting this rubbish must question his credibility or his belief in the gullibility of the fans.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:21 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Stability is bollox - look at Arsenal, same coach for years seldom win anything, Fergie was successful because he was prepared to make very difficult decisions about star players e.g. Beckham - neither GH or McDermott are prepared to do that. Fergie would not have retained Sinfield, McGuire, JJB, Bailey etc.

I would be prepared to place a sizeable bet that Peacock is still trotting around in 2016.

Look at the NRL how many coaches stay anywhere longer than 3/4 years? There is only so many times the same group of players can respond to the same message - either change the coach or the players.

The core of the group is in decline and you have an owner and a coach who don't have the balls to make the changes that are required to maintain the highest levels of quality.

The fact the owner is spouting this rubbish must question his credibility or his belief in the gullibility of the fans.

Problem is there will still be plenty of gullbility....and, as with many things in life (typified by religion), people will believe what they want to believe

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:14 am  

I certainly wouldn't want too many people to see the likes of JP in the same way I saw Atkinson and co when I started watching in 1981.

I agree that the side does seem to need freshening up a bit. In recent years Leeds have missed a trick in not providing better backup to the quality players we have, particularly in the pack. Being brutal, and with the benefit of hindsight, we could have seen Kirke, Clarkson and Bailey already replaced. We would then not be in a situation where we may have to replace 'just' JP and Leuluai at the end of next year, but those two plus at least one of Kirke and Bailey.

I do have a couple of caveats to the need for a complete overhaul though.

Firstly, the side did win the CC, and quite easily - beating Sts and Wire convincingly on the way. IMO they are still not that far off being able to compete all year. The squad may need fewer new faces than we might think to have a real stab at 2015.

Secondly, we simply won't be able to replace star players like for like. We may be able to get a very good prop to come in when JP retires, but it still won't be JP circa 2007. Neither would Sinfield or McGuire's replacements be younger versions of them - most would be poorer versions of their younger selves.

We are also in a salary cap universe. Even if they were available, we wouldn't be able to sign the best replacements from other clubs for Burrow, Sinfield, McGuire, JP etc, especially when so many of the squad have remained at Leeds for less than they could have got elsewhere. Bought in players would have no such in-built loyalty, and would rightly compare offers from different clubs in monetary terms as much as anything else. You could even argue that letting a few players go on a bit too long is the price the club has been willing to pay for its success over the last decade.

Finally, a real question remains over how the squad (whoever is in it) is used next year. At some stage the coach has to actually give fringe players a real go - not 5 minutes at the fag end of a match but starting, e.g. with JP on the bench. Will Cuthbertson be used like Achurch or push Leuluai for a starting spot for example? Nobody should be unsure about how good a player with 50+ appearances is (or could be), and faster decisions can be made about whether to retain them or not.

I do understand what GH is saying. Its interesting to make the comparisons he does though - the Revie-era Utd team fell to bits and Man Utd have also lost the aura they had under Ferguson. Hopefully he'll manage it better than Leeds Utd did.

Re: 2015 best squad ever : Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:04 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Seriously though how many single cell organisms does GH think he has on the fan base for them to buy this diatribe about 2015?

I guess we'll find out with season ticket sales, right guys?

He he

Funny thing is, William used a term like "single cell organisms" to aim at the apparent sheep like Leeds fans who'll keep supporting the term.......yet you, Nantwich and Jamie have then, like sheep, copied his usage of those three words in the belief that you are distancing yourself from being sheeplike.

Irony is a f**ker ain't it.