[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:41 pm  

I'm just thinking with one eye on Friday, surrender tackles, what's the unwritten rule on these ?


I know dominant if you drive someone back you supposedly get a little more time as the tackler/s AM I right in thinking it's similar forsurrender tackles ? I.e. ball carrier has gone to ground in order to achieve a quick play the ball , a defender gets a little more time in the tackle for these as well.


I'm just thinking if this would be a good tactic come Friday, to hit the floor on our terms, therefore negating Mr third and fourth man who are just interfering legally, also taking the legs out of the firing line for 'snap the pole'?


Not sure how useful it would balance out interms of getting a sticker play the ball

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:32 pm  

You caught me out slightly FMC I was trying to remember when the ref last called surrender, I couldn't, then your point, yes It would be worth considering go to ground just before the third/fourth man come in the first two take an eternity to allow the player up giving third and fourth time to get back in line, but they tend to stand the attacker up waiting for the cavalry, so it would have to be a quick surrender and all legit if the defence has contact on the ground.

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:22 pm  

Im also wondering if its legal for a second attacker to add weight to the tackle(union maul style) counteracting the pies attempts to slow the game by gaining additional yards when they do

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:38 pm  

I take your point, and essentially I think it's a good idea. Getting on the floor quickly and getting up as quick as possible should be the aim of the game on Friday for us. But Wigan, which was also pointed out by Phil Clarke in his recent collumn on sky, are very good at 'catching' attackers. They hold them up long enough to get defenders set for the next tackle, then dump them to the ground.

It we can find a way around this and get to the floor, we'll have a good chance

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:44 pm  

Lost in Leeds wrote:

Im also wondering if its legal for a second attacker to add weight to the tackle(union maul style) counteracting the pies attempts to slow the game by gaining additional yards when they do

A tackle is complete as soon as a second attacker joins, to stop Union style mauls. It's poorly policed however, and I've seen its wrongly reffed several times this season, usually around dropouts.

As for the original point, surrender tackles and dominant tackles are still (rightly) in the judgement of the ref. Both allow the defenders extra time to peel off, and would offer no significant benefit tactically.

That said, running at speed, and going to ground as initial contact is made, making sure hands and knees are the first area to make contact with the floor is a very good way to start momentum. James Graham went through a phase of doing this religiously while still at Saints. It sacrifices a metre or so of wrestle, but should (refs allowing) speed up the ruck significantly, with it very difficult for the opponent to turtle the player...

(All iirc)

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:45 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

A tackle is complete as soon as a second attacker joins, to stop Union style mauls. It's poorly policed however, and I've seen its wrongly reffed several times this season, usually around dropouts.

As for the original point, surrender tackles and dominant tackles are still (rightly) in the judgement of the ref. Both allow the defenders extra time to peel off, and would offer no significant benefit tactically.

That said, running at speed, and going to ground as initial contact is made, making sure hands and knees are the first area to make contact with the floor is a very good way to start momentum. James Graham went through a phase of doing this religiously while still at Saints. It sacrifices a metre or so of wrestle, but should (refs allowing) speed up the ruck significantly, with it very difficult for the opponent to turtle the player...

(All iirc)

The going to ground tactic is something Smith used on the occasion we put close on 40 points on them either last season or the season before. It enabled a quick ptb and Monas destroyed them.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:57 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

As for the original point, surrender tackles and dominant tackles are still (rightly) in the judgement of the ref. Both allow the defenders extra time to peel off, and would offer no significant benefit tactically.

That said, running at speed, and going to ground as initial contact is made, making sure hands and knees are the first area to make contact with the floor is a very good way to start momentum. James Graham went through a phase of doing this religiously while still at Saints. It sacrifices a metre or so of wrestle, but should (refs allowing) speed up the ruck significantly, with it very difficult for the opponent to turtle the player...

(All iirc)

well, this is what I'm on about, whilst the ref is giving a little extra time to the defenders, if our player has gone to ground on our terms, hopefully he's giving two defenders a little extra time, rather than 4 defenders, two of which have got involved needlessly and have pulled at a leg or a knee just for the sake of doing it.

The point I'm making is that IN a normal game, you're right and it'll be a slow play the ball, IN this instance, it's actual speeding it up as were negating Wigan's overall tactics
Well

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:07 pm  

I wouldn't mind us trying to get a couple of penalties in the scrum too, Wigan using this a bit lately, play them at their game

Re: surrender tackles : Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:41 pm  

If wire play the same tactics as pies, It may end up like watching 2013 cc final.
...and we would end up losing as pies play poop to watch rugby better than we can!

God forbid.