Re: MOS so far? : Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:19 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

If it isn't Darryl Clark there's something seriously wrong with the game..the lads being immense.

Sure, he would be a worthy winner.But lets not exaggerate, JP,Hill or Clark have all got an equal case for winning. It must be tight

Re: MOS so far? : Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:44 pm  

Brown Shenton Roby have been excellent

Clark has been great but is nailed on to win Young Player I think.

So between Chris Hill and Jamie Peacock. Either would deserve it whichever wins. I think Hill is amazing!but that's my Wire bias calling that.

Re: MOS so far? : Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:03 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

If it isn't Darryl Clark there's something seriously wrong with the game..the lads being immense.

His attacking stats are very good, but his overall game is nowhere near Roby, in fact I would say Hodgson has the edge on him as well.

Re: MOS so far? : Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:41 pm  

Chris Hill for me

Re: MOS so far? : Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:25 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

His attacking stats are very good, but his overall game is nowhere near Roby, in fact I would say Hodgson has the edge on him as well.

I made this point to someone else. Clark and Roby are two different types of player.

Everything Saints do is off the back of Roby. He makes more dummy runs than any other hooker in the league and they play very much direct and then spread it out later on.

By comparison, Cas don't; look at their stats at hooker for any of our players - we barely register at dummy half because we like to play open rugby and spread the ball out across the line.

Allowing for this helps to understand the stats a bit more. Roby's defensive stats are excellent, no denying and he is clearly a benchmark in Super League. However, in attack it's easy to see why he clocks up so many carries and metres when taking into account the above. Not a criticism, just pointing it out that he's the pivot that makes Saints tick. Despite this, he's only made 60m more and he plays 80 minutes every week too (again, another point to consider when judging stats).

As for Hodgson, Clark beats him in attack and defence. He has 80 missed tackles compared to Clark's 31 or alike and he's only made more tackles because KR have had to do a lot more defending (again adding some context to the stats).

Re: MOS so far? : Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:45 am  

Clark for MoS
Burgess for Young Player

Re: MOS so far? : Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:24 pm  

C Hill

Re: MOS so far? : Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:53 pm  

Fully wrote:

I made this point to someone else. Clark and Roby are two different types of player.

Everything Saints do is off the back of Roby. He makes more dummy runs than any other hooker in the league and they play very much direct and then spread it out later on.

By comparison, Cas don't; look at their stats at hooker for any of our players - we barely register at dummy half because we like to play open rugby and spread the ball out across the line.

Allowing for this helps to understand the stats a bit more. Roby's defensive stats are excellent, no denying and he is clearly a benchmark in Super League. However, in attack it's easy to see why he clocks up so many carries and metres when taking into account the above. Not a criticism, just pointing it out that he's the pivot that makes Saints tick. Despite this, he's only made 60m more and he plays 80 minutes every week too (again, another point to consider when judging stats).

As for Hodgson, Clark beats him in attack and defence. He has 80 missed tackles compared to Clark's 31 or alike and he's only made more tackles because KR have had to do a lot more defending (again adding some context to the stats).

Stats are not your friend in this argument...

ignoring the Roby vs Clark argument (which should of been killed dead at the weekend) what you say about Hodgeson is false...

Hull Kr as a team have made LESS tackles than Castleford this season (8044 vs 7957) so as a percentage Hodgson is getting through a much greater proportion of work compared to Clark. In attack, Hodgson has only made around 100m less over the season, and a similar strike ratio (11:11 vs 13:10 try's:try assists) - there is little to choose between them statistically... At best Clark is marginally ahead, but it is far from clear cut...

Since you pull up one thing in particular in missed tackle, one of the major arguments I've seen made in favour of Clark is that he plays x minutes less than Roby so it's not fair to compare Roby's work (almost twice the number of tackles) to his. Surely the flip side of that argument is that his tackle percentages should be up because he's doing far less work?

Re: MOS so far? : Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:31 pm  

You're not accounting for the missed tackles too, which don't go into the tackles column. KR have missed far more tackles than Cas and so the total tackle attempts (tackles made, missed tackles) is more for KR.

Re: MOS so far? : Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:50 pm  

Fully wrote:

You're not accounting for the missed tackles too, which don't go into the tackles column. KR have missed far more tackles than Cas and so the total tackle attempts (tackles made, missed tackles) is more for KR.

Even accounting for that, Hull Kr have made 100 tackle attempts more than Castleford, Hodgson has still made 200 tackles more, and is thus making a far greater overall contribution in defence - as per my original statement.