Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:35 pm  

The point i'd like to make is that as things were, 6th and humiliation was about as good as it would ever have got plodding on down the road we were.
I, like Pearson, am a lot happier about the future of the club now than at the end of last year.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:40 pm  

*1865* wrote:

The point i'd like to make is that as things were, 6th and humiliation was about as good as it would ever have got plodding on down the road we were.
I, like Pearson, am a lot happier about the future of the club now than at the end of last year.

I'm happier than I was at the end of last season but not as happy as I thought I would be now.

I am more hopeful than I was a few weeks ago. Some of the recent performances (excepting Bradford away) suggest we may be moving in the right direction. The proof will be how we start next year.

[Kosh]

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:59 pm  

Diogenes wrote:

I don't believe anyone can seriously contend that last season was not a lot better than this season.

6th place is better than 12th whichever way you look at it.

Yes we underperformed at Wembley but at least we got there as opposed to throwing away a match-winning position at home in the first round we played.

The play-off defeat at Huddersfield last year was totally unacceptable but this year we were nowhere near making the play-offs.

There have been plenty of unacceptable performances this year too e.g. Widnes at home, Wakey at home.

Being better than this season isn't much of an accolade. And the point being discussed isn't about how unquestionably bad this season has been, but rather some of the reasons behind that.

[Kosh]

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:10 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

No, I don't think those 2 performances were alright. Far from it. A consecutive 6th whilst also reaching the cup final I consider better than alright, though, hence alright overall for the season as whole. I personally think that 2 shocking performances have overshadowed 2 years of progress (albeit not necessarily enough progress).

I'm not sure I agree, although I understand your PoV. For me, last season promised much but delivered little aside from the financial boost from appearing at Wembley. There may have been some progress but it was pretty minimal.

carl_spackler wrote:

I appreciate that point, what I’m saying is that I don’t think this year has been as heavily about the inherited personnel problems as is (seemingly to me) being portrayed.

<snip>

I would readily accept the state of the squad being a reason for not producing another 6th place, but as far down as 11th is down to those other factors as well IMO.

I think personnel problems have been the heart of our troubles for the thick end of a decade, and we may finally be making a real effort to get to grips with successive years of poor recruitment and retention. That's not to deny that other issues have contributed - Radford has clearly made mistakes and has an awful lot to prove next season.

If you look at how we've ended up in 11th - the games we've lost where we should have won - the difference in performance of the squad is not as great as it appears from the bare numbers. I'm not convinced that Gentle would have done a whole lot better TBH.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:23 pm  

Kosh wrote:

Being better than this season isn't much of an accolade. And the point being discussed isn't about how unquestionably bad this season has been, but rather some of the reasons behind that.

I'm sure there are many reasons behind it. The number of average players being paid too much and preventing us from strengthening is only one of them and IMO not the main one.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:51 pm  

Diogenes wrote:

I'm sure there are many reasons behind it. The number of average players being paid too much and preventing us from strengthening is only one of them and IMO not the main one.

In a salary capped sport it's simply not possible to tie up average players on big money for long periods and hope to progress. It's a big deal in my opinion.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:45 pm  

Kosh wrote:

I'm not sure I agree, although I understand your PoV. For me, last season promised much but delivered little aside from the financial boost from appearing at Wembley. There may have been some progress but it was pretty minimal.

I pretty much agree. For comparison though, this year promised less and delivered even worse, though.

Kosh wrote:

I think personnel problems have been the heart of our troubles for the thick end of a decade, and we may finally be making a real effort to get to grips with successive years of poor recruitment and retention. That's not to deny that other issues have contributed - Radford has clearly made mistakes and has an awful lot to prove next season.

Again, I agree. I feel a little uncomfortable with some of the methods we've possibly used, though.

Kosh wrote:

If you look at how we've ended up in 11th - the games we've lost where we should have won - the difference in performance of the squad is not as great as it appears from the bare numbers. I'm not convinced that Gentle would have done a whole lot better TBH.

And once agree, I agree (although with the close losses vs. close wins, there has to be a little bit more credit attributed to Gentle for a bit more mental toughness last year, IMO). What I'm disagreeing with is how much Pearson has criticised the previous regime whilst defending the current way of things, and almost using the previous setup to pass the buck, when so far there hasn't been a whole lot of difference. In a way I understand it, as I'd always expect a good MD to stand up for his staff if he feels they deserve it, and I can understand him possibly harbouring some resentment if he does feel certain people have taken him for a ride. I'm just not ready to get fully on board with it on only one (non-neutral) party's say-so. If the new setup was better than the last, IMO we should have seen some issues fixed this year that haven't been, and not just have it suggested that it's because the squad's not good enough because of the last guy and it'll be sorted with better recruitment.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 pm  

Staffs FC wrote:

In a salary capped sport it's simply not possible to tie up average players on big money for long periods and hope to progress. It's a big deal in my opinion.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a very important issue, but it's far from being the only one. Our biggest issue since Cooke left has been attracting a top player to put alongside him (a top player that we can keep fit). Had we not had the issues we had with Dykes I genuinely believe we'd have won more and he'd have stayed longer.

From Wiki

2008[edit]

Dykes had a disappointing year in England featuring only 17 times for Hull missing the Challenge Cup final in a season wrecked by injury.Dykes was instrumental for the black and whites when he was on the pitch winning every man of the match award in the Challenge Cup run to the final

There is every possibility that 2008 Pryce and Sneyd will be just what we have been missing, that, and a replacement for Ogre and we have a much better chance next season.

[Kosh]

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:35 pm  

Diogenes wrote:

I'm sure there are many reasons behind it. The number of average players being paid too much and preventing us from strengthening is only one of them and IMO not the main one.

I'm not sure what method you're using for weighting the various factors, but I'd put lack of squad quality quite high up the list of why any team struggles TBH. And the weaknesses in our squad were pretty clear last season, let alone this.

[Kosh]

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:36 pm  

Standee wrote:

I don't think anyone is saying it is a very important issue, but it's far from being the only one. Our biggest issue since Cooke left has been attracting a top player to put alongside him (a top player that we can keep fit). Had we not had the issues we had with Dykes I genuinely believe we'd have won more and he'd have stayed longer.

Absolutely. Dykes pretty much got us to Wembley on one leg - who knows what we could have achieved if we'd had the fully fit version.