Re: POTY Awards night. : Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:06 pm  

All the players were round Town last night even got one of them on video singing karaoke lol

Re: POTY Awards night. : Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:11 pm  

Punos wrote:

All the players were round Town last night even got one of them on video singing karaoke lol

VHS or Betamax?

Re: POTY Awards night. : Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:59 pm  

Got to be Betamax, I will see if I can post it on the normal video site later.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:45 am  

Staffs FC wrote:

People taking the view that money was wasted by Gentle and McRae on overpaying average players are taking that view based upon the Chairman's own comments. Since it was his money being wasted I'm not surprised he a) got rid of the perpetrators and b) feels it necessary to enlighten the supporters about that situation. He's also admitted to his own mistake in allowing this to happen (when new into the sport) and it sounds as though he wont allow it to happen again.

Clearly it's your prerogative not to believe him but it's difficult to see why anyone would doubt his word.

Firstly, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the fact that Thompson was signed by McRae/Gentle, so was under the regime where we allegedly paid way over the odds rather than getting good value. I should have included a smiley, I suppose.

Secondly, think it is almost certainly true that some players are overpaid, but I don't think it is the root cause of most of our problems to the extent that it's being portrayed. They will have been just as overpaid last year, but did alright. I have seen little/no acknowledgement of any specific problems this year other than 'too much of the wage bill unavailable to Lee through no fault of his own'. Other than that it's mostly generic stuff about 'poor game management' and 'not enough intensity' (which are both true). Nothing about the strange strategies of persisting with an out-of-form second rower in the centres no matter how badly he played whilst shipping other centres around the country and playing another centre in the second row, still several weeks after he came in and started gaining match fitness (and as soon as Whiting had his op, Sa came into the starting lineup and had a great game, probably the best centre performance of our season), or persisting with a hooker at halfback that has been proven not to work long-term and weakens the hooking position.

I’m not saying there isn’t any acknowledgment of fault in the current setup, or that there shouldn’t be any levelled at the previous, I just think that the balance has been incorrect and in some ways actually unfair/inconsistent. You yourself make the point about some not giving Radford credit when it is due (I’d like to think that doesn’t include me, I have said when I think he’s right as well as wrong), and I think that that is similar to the issue I have with Pearson bashing Gentle/McRae. He has praised Radford a lot for integrating young players into the team (100% rightly so), yet criticised Gentle for not doing it, when he plainly did (IIRC, academy player debuts: Gentle 8, Radford 4, the same average per season). Radford’s recruitment has also been lauded where Gentle’s is criticised, but IMO both have had some notable successes as well as duffers, the only key difference being the wage issue (and a point of interest IMO, is that whilst a focus on British has been mentioned and ‘Australian coaches’ being a problem, I think Gentle’s recruitment was about 55% British, Radford’s has been 45% so far). Pearson has made some claims I consider inaccurate, and whilst I wouldn’t go so far as to say I doubt his word it is fair to say that I am not entirely convinced by it, either, and it is this kind of thing to which that I attribute that.

I’d like to make one thing clear, just so that there’s no misunderstanding at all: I do not think that Pearson has lied. About anything. I do, however, think that he speaks passionately, and can get quite bullish and defensive, which has possibly led in some instances to overstating certain things. At times it has sounded to me like Pearson thinks ‘old coach = bad, new coach = good’. That may just be my interpretation (although I think some agree with me), but I disagree with it being that simple. With what might have gone on, though, I could fully understand why Pearson’s viewpoint might be coloured somewhat.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:57 am  

Tries of the season now online here. Useful, at least, for comparing the pitch sizes, pre and post Allam redesign.

Tries of the season now online here. Useful, at least, for comparing the pitch sizes, pre and post Allam redesign.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am  

Standee wrote:

That, is not solely Peter Gentle's fault.

I'd just like to point out that this isn't what I've claimed has been said.

Standee wrote:

The "it wasn't me, it was him" culture never works.

But I do have some agreement with this.

Standee wrote:

Has Lee apologised for the woeful season?

Is he required to?

Standee wrote:

Has he said it was unacceptable?

Don't know if he's outright said, but his post matches have certainly hinted that that's how he feels.

Standee wrote:

or are they all getting ready to go out in Beverley on the beer?

Does it matter?

[Kosh]

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:34 am  

carl_spackler wrote:

Secondly, think it is almost certainly true that some players are overpaid, but I don't think it is the root cause of most of our problems to the extent that it's being portrayed. They will have been just as overpaid last year, but did alright.

I guess that depends on whether you consider last season overall as doing alright. Personally, while the 6th place finish was a decent result I don't consider the performances at Wembley or at Huddersfield in the playoffs as doing alright. Your mileage may vary.

And the issue with overpayment is not that it's somehow preventing those players performing to an adequate standard, but more that it's hampering our ability to strengthen the squad and/or replace those players with better/more suitable candidates.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:01 pm  

Kosh wrote:

I guess that depends on whether you consider last season overall as doing alright. Personally, while the 6th place finish was a decent result I don't consider the performances at Wembley or at Huddersfield in the playoffs as doing alright. Your mileage may vary.

No, I don't think those 2 performances were alright. Far from it. A consecutive 6th whilst also reaching the cup final I consider better than alright, though, hence alright overall for the season as whole. I personally think that 2 shocking performances have overshadowed 2 years of progress (albeit not necessarily enough progress).

Kosh wrote:

And the issue with overpayment is not that it's somehow preventing those players performing to an adequate standard, but more that it's hampering our ability to strengthen the squad and/or replace those players with better/more suitable candidates.

I appreciate that point, what I’m saying is that I don’t think this year has been as heavily about the inherited personnel problems as is (seemingly to me) being portrayed. It should not just be down to the quality of players that we still have next to no dummy runners (or options, whatever you care to call them), that our ptb speed almost across the team is poor, that our attacking structure is still so on and off, that our defensive line speed took until about 20 matches in to kick in (our defence in general was worse for a decent of chunk of the season IMO), and that we have been mostly unable to close matches out from winning positions. Yes, personnel changes will improve these to varying degrees, but IMO they should have been better even with those we have now. I would readily accept the state of the squad being a reason for not producing another 6th place, but as far down as 11th is down to those other factors as well IMO.

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:29 pm  

Kosh wrote:

carl_spackler wrote:

Secondly, think it is almost certainly true that some players are overpaid, but I don't think it is the root cause of most of our problems to the extent that it's being portrayed. They will have been just as overpaid last year, but did alright.

I guess that depends on whether you consider last season overall as doing alright. Personally, while the 6th place finish was a decent result I don't consider the performances at Wembley or at Huddersfield in the playoffs as doing alright. Your mileage may vary.

And the issue with overpayment is not that it's somehow preventing those players performing to an adequate standard, but more that it's hampering our ability to strengthen the squad and/or replace those players with better/more suitable candidates.

I don't believe anyone can seriously contend that last season was not a lot better than this season.

6th place is better than 11th whichever way you look at it.

Yes we underperformed at Wembley but at least we got there as opposed to throwing away a match-winning position at home in the first round we played.

The play-off defeat at Huddersfield last year was totally unacceptable but this year we were nowhere near making the play-offs.

There have been plenty of unacceptable performances this year too e.g. Widnes at home, Wakey at home.

I believe next year's squad is already looking stronger than this year's and that we have a right to expect better next year. I'm sure we'll do better but how much better? Hypothetically speaking if we don't make it to Wembley, finish 6th and bow out of the play-offs in the first round with some pride intact will you regard that as "alright" or better than 2013?

Re: POTY Awards night. : Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:35 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

.........I don’t think this year has been as heavily about the inherited personnel problems as is (seemingly to me) being portrayed. It should not just be down to the quality of players that we still have next to no dummy runners (or options, whatever you care to call them), that our ptb speed almost across the team is poor, that our attacking structure is still so on and off, that our defensive line speed took until about 20 matches in to kick in (our defence in general was worse for a decent of chunk of the season IMO), and that we have been mostly unable to close matches out from winning positions. Yes, personnel changes will improve these to varying degrees, but IMO they should have been better even with those we have now. I would readily accept the state of the squad being a reason for not producing another 6th place, but as far down as 11th is down to those other factors as well IMO.

I totally agree with everything in this post. Some of the problems and weaknesses you refer to have been evident for years, pre-Gentle and pre-Pearson.

Radford now has a full pre-season with his own players to work on these issues so I expect much better next year.