Re: Team for Hull : Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:47 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I have some names (coach or then equivalents) but no precise dates - 1930's Billy Smith (Trainer), 1940's Frank Dawson, 1950's Ken Dalby (Team Manager), 1960's Roy Francis, 1970's Derek Turner, Roy Francis again and Syd Hynes - which is where I came in. If you or anyone else wish to input some detail then please do so.

Didn't Joe Warham coach in '58, winning the clubs first Championship, and again when Roy Francis left in '69 - again winning the Championship? He was also the scout that brought so much fantastic talent for Francis to utilise.

Not a bad effort from my old games teacher.

Re: Team for Hull : Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:38 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Yeah, but had McDermott been the coach they would have won the play offs too. No really.

Ha ha...with McDermott or indeed any modern day coach (perhaps with the exception of Powell) in charge we'd have been treated to predictable, ploddy, over structured highly athletic stuff that was/is almost instantly forgettable. (I may be falling out of love with 'The Greatest Game')

Re: Team for Hull : Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:52 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I wouldn't know how to post links to my spreadsheets. They are not on the internet so I don't think I can?

Slippery and evasive as ever tvoc. You know my question was nothing to do with spreadsheets.

The point that I made was your apparent one eyed enthusiasm to make many negative posts with regard to Big Mac but a distinct reluctance to acknowledge his positive achievements.

So which Leeds coach has achieved the best collection of trophies in both the Super league era and also since you started collecting records whenever that was?

Re: Team for Hull : Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:03 pm  

DHM wrote:

Didn't Joe Warham coach in '58, winning the clubs first Championship, and again when Roy Francis left in '69 - again winning the Championship? He was also the scout that brought so much fantastic talent for Francis to utilise.

Not a bad effort from my old games teacher.

The first Championship was 1960/61 and you are right about Joe Wareham bringing in all the young talent which could be described as our first "golden generation". As Roy Francis (coach in the mid-sixties) said later, with players that talented he had no need to coach or drill them - he sent them on to the pitch to play their natural game.

Re: Team for Hull : Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:17 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Slippery and evasive as ever tvoc. You know my question was nothing to do with spreadsheets.

The point that I made was your apparent one eyed enthusiasm to make many negative posts with regard to Big Mac but a distinct reluctance to acknowledge his positive achievements.

And my response is that I have not viewed anything won under McDermott in any way less or differently to anything won under previous coaches.

I hear the oft now repeated claim that McDermott is the most successful coach Leeds have ever had and merely question by which set of criteria this success is being measured and how his record compares to Leeds coaches of the past.

People using the claim (as you did at the top of the previous page) presumably know it to be an accurate statement and - it may be an accurate statement, I simply don't know but would at least like to find out first. During some research I came across the following from Phil Caplan in the Leeds Rhinos Miscellany regarding coaches -

"The arrival of revolutionary Welshman Roy Francis in 1963 heralded the start of coaches having a major impact and profile at Headingley. His innovative methods centred principally on fitness, speed and ball movement, occasioned the second golden era at the club, cementing the foundations for a period of unprecedented silverwear gathering."

It will be interesting to look back in another fifty years (not that either of us will be able to) to see whose legacy/ies are being credited for Leeds third golden era.

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So which Leeds coach has achieved the best collection of trophies in both the Super league era and also since you started collecting records whenever that was?

My period of recording Leeds stats is incomplete by the term being used - 'our most successful (in terms of trophies won) coach ever'

Nevertheless including just the Leeds coaches I've collected stats for and therefore - 'our most successful coach in terms of trophies won 1975/76 to 2014'

Syd Hynes - 7
Robin Dewhurst - 0
Maurice Bamford - 1
Malcolm Clift - 0
Peter Fox - 0
Maurice Bamford - 0
Malcolm Reilly - 1
David Ward - 0
Doug Laughton - 0
Dean Bell - 0
Graham Murray - 1
Dean Lance - 0
Daryl Powell - 0
Tony Smith - 4
Brian McClennan - 4
Brian McDermott - 4

If anyone knows any different then please say as the above attempt is by way of piecing different sources together.

_____

DHM wrote:

Didn't Joe Warham coach in '58, winning the clubs first Championship, and again when Roy Francis left in '69 - again winning the Championship?

Thanks for that - at least someone is trying to fill in the gaps and like me doing so from a period beyond their personal recollection.

It appears (from the reproduced Caplan comment earlier) that the coaching appointments at Headingley only became significant from the revolutionary Roy Francis.

He arrived in 1963 and left in 1968 the vacated post then taken by his 'A' team coach Jack Nelson but he sadly passed away at Christmas that year leaving Joe Warham in a caretaker capacity until the reigns were taken over again this time by Derek 'Rocky' Turner at the start of 1969/70 for four seasons - then the great Eric Ashton for a year - then Francis again for a year before Syd Hynes took on the role initially as the player/coach before hanging up his boots as the 1976/77 season progressed.

-----

Edited with thanks to Him

Re: Team for Hull : Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:22 pm  

Brian McClennan won 4 trophies.
2008 World Club Challenge
2008 Grand Final
2009 League Leaders
& 2009 Grand Final

Pfft. Frankly amateurish stats effort. No cake for tvoc.

Re: Team for Hull : Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:52 pm  

Thanks for the correction - looks like a typo as I had all those on the list - I should be on a diet anyway.

Re: Team for Hull : Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:14 am  

Francis left to coach North Sydney Bears for the '69 season finishing 7th. Technically Francis won 2 trophies whilst coaching Leeds; the '74 premiership and the infamous CC of '68. However they did go onto win the 68/69 Yorkshire cup and become champions that season with the essense of his team under Joe Warham.
Before Leeds, Francis had come to play the latter part of his career for Hull until 1955 (18 years a player straddled by the war) retired and immediately took over as coach during one of our most successful era's. Hull won the Championship twice, 56/57 & 58/59 (with a controversial runners-up spot in 57/58) as well as two losing CC finals and Yorkshire cup RU under his tenure. He left to coach Leeds in '63.

As far as who is the better coach..Francis without a shadow of doubt, he was so far ahead of his time, as for most successful for Leeds, no, but I'd have a Francis back at hull in a heartbeat, I couldn't honestly say the same about BM.