Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:41 am  

nohalfbacks wrote:

I now hope that Cas finish top as they seem like the only team that has played consistently well throughout the season. If Saints finish top then good luck to them but it says something about the state of the league when the top team has played so poorly in many games. Even against Leeds they were completely dominated for most of the game. At least last year nobody could argue that Huddersfield were not worthy of finishing top despite other teams playing the system.

We (Saints) have only lost 6 games, and really have only had 4 poor performances....Good Friday, Magic Weekend, Catalan and Hull KR away. We have beaten the rest of the top 6 away from home (Hudds excluding as we haven't played them yet), hammered Castleford at home, done the double on Leeds, etc....

On Friday we were hardly "completely dominated for most of the game", we made a lot of mistakes in the first half, but the 2nd half was a pretty strong example of keeping it simple and grinding them down for the win. Not a classic performance, but without any half backs we can hardly expect much attacking zing, and is pretty much how we are going to have to play the rest of the year.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:26 am  

Wigg'n wrote:

Am I completely missing something here?

Why on Earth would switching back to a Winter season make the game better and increase attendances? And why would it mean we would see touring teams again?

I agree all the way, whatever the ills of SL IMO they wouldn’t be put right by going back to the winter season, I believe this would make a bad situation worse. There are many reasons why the game is in difficulties at the minute, and there has been a lot of very interesting discussions about them on these boards, from my own experience with friends and family the number one reason is simple, money, the lack of it. I’m not saying it’s by any means the only reason, I just think if people had the spare cash they once had they wouldn’t be quite as critical about the game as a whole and would still be going through the turnstiles much as they once did. The good old days are like the last holiday you had, it’s always a lot better when looking back than the accrual reality of the time you were there.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:37 am  

Moving back to winter would also mean the whole season would run alongside both football and RU. Not only could this hurt crowds, it could cause a logistical nightmare now so many teams share grounds with either football or RU teams.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:20 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Moving back to winter would also mean the whole season would run alongside both football and RU. Not only could this hurt crowds, it could cause a logistical nightmare now so many teams share grounds with either football or RU teams.

It worked for over 100yrs, infact rugby league used to play along side football on Saturdays, switching to summer was said that it would increase attendances as we wouldn't be in competition with RU and football however it's had the adverse affect, people can't afford to watch sport all tear round so now they pick between football and RL unfortunately they seem to pick football. The stadia sharing is the major issue of that I agree.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:43 pm  

hatty wrote:

It worked for over 100yrs, infact rugby league used to play along side football on Saturdays, switching to summer was said that it would increase attendances as we wouldn't be in competition with RU and football however it's had the adverse affect, people can't afford to watch sport all tear round so now they pick between football and RL unfortunately they seem to pick football. The stadia sharing is the major issue of that I agree.

The stats say otherwise. Attendances across the board have increased since the switch to summer.

The biggest problem with the competition IMO is the top 8 play off. It's simply too easy to get into allowing the better teams to canter along. The change of format next year will hopefully address that problem. It will make it necessary to finish in the top 4. With Wigan, Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Huddersfield, Castleford, Salford and if they ever get it together Hull looking strong for next year I hope it will add to the intensity of the weekly rounds and produce a better competition. Time will tell but I am optimistic.

The other big issue is money. RU because of the international game has more than we do. Australia has mega bucks because of their new TV deal aided by a favourable exchange rate which we benefited from for quite a while. We can't do anything about what others have, just look to grow the game gradually here. It will take time and competent management. We have one of those...........

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:28 pm  

I think the quality of coaching has improved so that decent players playing to a structured system can get good results. We had far more 'off the cuff' players back then I think. There are possibly less supposed superstars in the game, but then again, there are also less overpriced ageing Aussies here for their pension.

I'd like to bet that a fair proportion of those moaning about the state of the game now are the same ones moaning about those Aussies coming over for one last easy pay check.

As we've seen, the SL comp is capable of producing top flight NRl players so i don't think standards are that different, just that some of the names don't look quite so exciting 'on paper'.

As mentioned above, the big issue is the top 8 system. Imagine this season having to get into the top 4 to qualify, the quality and intensity of the last months games would be far far higher. This is the biggest cause of supporters complaints, that regular games don't mean much.

Hopefully next seasons changes will improve this.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:14 pm  

Big Steve wrote:

I think the quality of coaching has improved so that decent players playing to a structured system can get good results. We had far more 'off the cuff' players back then I think. There are possibly less supposed superstars in the game, but then again, there are also less overpriced ageing Aussies here for their pension.

I'd like to bet that a fair proportion of those moaning about the state of the game now are the same ones moaning about those Aussies coming over for one last easy pay check.

As we've seen, the SL comp is capable of producing top flight NRl players so i don't think standards are that different, just that some of the names don't look quite so exciting 'on paper'.

As mentioned above, the big issue is the top 8 system. Imagine this season having to get into the top 4 to qualify, the quality and intensity of the last months games would be far far higher. This is the biggest cause of supporters complaints, that regular games don't mean much.

Hopefully next seasons changes will improve this.

The star players we produce should be playing in the super league not the NRL though. The issue for me is the state of rugby league in general, the game has become robotic natural flair has been discarded, even sky sports opening credits for rugby league games shows players as robots and I'm afraid that's what the game is turning into, like the game battleships but for rugby league players.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:03 pm  

hatty wrote:

The star players we produce should be playing in the super league not the NRL though. The issue for me is the state of rugby league in general, the game has become robotic natural flair has been discarded, even sky sports opening credits for rugby league games shows players as robots and I'm afraid that's what the game is turning into, like the game battleships but for rugby league players.

Or maybe youre just more expectant having seen the "flair" of previous generations. A 30m pass was a big deal in 2005 (Paul Cooke made a career out of it), but its standard today. Defensive structures mean every try (generally speaking) comes from what would be considered a "great" try "back in the day", but because a) its common now and b) were not wearing nostalgia glasses we dont celebrate it for what it is anymore. Weve become an expectant culture as opposed to an appreciative one (thats not just in RL mind).

I had the misfortune of watching Saints vs Bradford at VP when we put 50 past them recently. London would of been embarassed by some of the defence on show, and Saints attack didnt need to get past run at the gap. Not everything was better.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:25 pm  

EHW wrote:

On Friday we were hardly "completely dominated for most of the game", we made a lot of mistakes in the first half, but the 2nd half was a pretty strong example of keeping it simple and grinding them down for the win. Not a classic performance, but without any half backs we can hardly expect much attacking zing, and is pretty much how we are going to have to play the rest of the year.

Leeds were without 2 halfbacks and were a man down for the majority of the game. Credit to saints for winning, but it's hardly a win you can be cock of the north about, scraping home with a man advantage after 2 weeks prep against a team with 3 days prep.

Re: Another 'not a Wigan performance' Shaun : Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:18 pm  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Leeds were without 2 halfbacks

But missing your two halves allowed that young sinfield lad to get a game in the halves and he went OK I reckon, big future ahead of him.