[Bullseye]

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:31 pm  

Northernrelic wrote:

. The only places where pubs/winebars seem to be holding their own are where you get a lot of professionals - like the centre of Leeds and London, or places like York where they have the tourist trade to support them

I’m not sure that’s completely right. Some village locals seem to do alright where they can simultaneously serve decent grub but keep a part of the pub aside for “locals”. They’re important focal points. My home village of East Morton has a decent pub.

In larger towns the better run pubs seem to do ok. There’s 3 or 4 very good pubs in Keighley that do very well, and that’s not a tourist town. Same goes for Otley too (even if it’s nicer than Keighley).

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:46 pm  

Northernrelic wrote:

Well compared to even 10 years ago the choices have greatly reduced and several of the remaining ones you mention are down to one man and his dog for custom. We often used to do the Manchester Rd crawl on a Friday night and when we walked back into town after the Wigan match last week I don't think there is one hostelry left between Smiddles Lane and the Jacobs.

But still I bow to your self proclaimed superior knowledge the traditional British public house is apparently in good health??

I don't think there's a need to get snooty, I do prickle when people tell me how crap Bradford is and your claim that there weren't 8 ale pubs in town rankled as it's just not true. It must be hard enough trying to keep a half decent pub open anyway, without people wrongly claiming there are hardly any left, and I don't know why you couldn't just put your hand up and admit your post was wrong.

Manchester Road being knocked down for the mini motorway, which has ended up as the world's craziest convoluted road to nowhere, is a different page in Bradford Council's catalogue of shame, they could of course have left it completely alone and just finished the M606 down to the inner "ring" road (another bad joke, as it stops at the Ice Rink!)

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:49 pm  

Whilst we're on the continued existence or otherwise of the city's fixtures and fittings can I just point out that Manchester Road is still there and that the majority of it has always been at ground level.

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:49 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I’m not sure that’s completely right. Some village locals seem to do alright where they can simultaneously serve decent grub but keep a part of the pub aside for “locals”. They’re important focal points. My home village of East Morton has a decent pub.

In larger towns the better run pubs seem to do ok. There’s 3 or 4 very good pubs in Keighley that do very well, and that’s not a tourist town. Same goes for Otley too (even if it’s nicer than Keighley).

Take your point Bullseye but even in Otley several pubs have closed down, and though you are too modest to say East Morton is quiet affluent which helps the Busfield. But if you are on a lower income you probably can only really afford to buy your beverage from the supermarket hence the decline of the traditional boozer. Even I have to put up my hand and admit to buying Little Valley and Wolds from the supermarket, or Golden Pippin direct from the brewery.

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:52 pm  

There are some pubs near me that I don't understand the continued existence of. They are in every way local pubs, and whilst in Leeds they're on Stanningley Road at the edge of Bramley / Stanningley and it's not an area known for its affluence. I don't go in much but they always seem busy when I go past on the bike.

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:01 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

When I was at Bradford Uni some 20+ years ago there were at least 12 pubs within short walking distance of the Uni. I remember with fondness the Shearbridge, Willowfield, Waterloo, Peel, MacRory’s, Red Lion, Mannville and Rafters. Not to mention the likes of Tumblers after hours. They’ve all gone now 

That's a shame. I was a regular in a few of those around that time.

Just past Rafters up Little Horton Lane was The Park. I only went in there once - it was quite clear that I had crossed the boundary away from the student area.

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:05 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I don't think there's a need to get snooty, I do prickle when people tell me how crap Bradford is and your claim that there weren't 8 ale pubs in town rankled as it's just not true. It must be hard enough trying to keep a half decent pub open anyway, without people wrongly claiming there are hardly any left, and I don't know why you couldn't just put your hand up and admit your post was wrong.

Manchester Road being knocked down for the mini motorway, which has ended up as the world's craziest convoluted road to nowhere, is a different page in Bradford Council's catalogue of shame, they could of course have left it completely alone and just finished the M606 down to the inner "ring" road (another bad joke, as it stops at the Ice Rink!)

I am a born and bred Bradfordian, and still proud of the fact, but the general point I was making was that I would guess within the district as a whole maybe 50% of the public houses have gone and there is no trace of many of my old city centre watering holes.

Like it or not Bradford and it's centre have taken an absolute hammering over the last few decades, and while they might finally be filling in the hole at the centre I don't see the crowds flocking back from the Trinity Centre

[Bulliac]

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:05 pm  

Probably the biggest problem over recent years has been the rise of the 'pub groups', which took the place of the big brewers in the seat of power, by circumventing the legislation which attempted to stop the breweries from buying up, and tying up, the pubs.

They give the opportunity to pay £30k deposit to run a pub, under a contract which compels the licensee to buy beer only from the group [at inflated prices] and then puts the rent up if the licensee decides to do food to make a bit of money. Of course, many fail, but the pub groups don't care since they've thrashed out as much as they can from their victim and keep the deposit...and so long as property prices continue to rise they can laugh all the way to the bank, especially since there will always be more people who fancy opening a pub when they get the chance.....

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:20 pm  

Northernrelic wrote:

I am a born and bred Bradfordian, and still proud of the fact, but the general point I was making was that I would guess within the district as a whole maybe 50% of the public houses have gone and there is no trace of many of my old city centre watering holes.

Indeed but it's a national epidemic, of course Bradfoird has been hit by the double whammy of the general recession etc., plus the council's shameful incompetence in having a crater as a centre for a decade.

The point I was making was really that those real ale providers who are still around (and indeed re-opening, or opening from scratch - need our support, not negativity. The rate of closure of pubs and clubs, and all the other issues and problems in the trade, are well documented and I am hardly denying them, but anyone wanting a good drink, or even an extensive crawl, will be very well served still by choosing Bradford City Centre and telling people you can't do it when plainly you can is not my idea of helpful.

The other thing is, I'd guess the majority of pub-goers when they do go to the pub do not tend to "crawl". One good pub will do. If Jacob's, or TFC, or The Sparrow, was the only pub left in Bradford, it would still be no less worth a visit. The Sparrow being of course an object lesson, as 2 years it didn't exist, and many people told Les he was mad opening a bar in the wilds of North Parade, yet they have created from scratch a real gem, award winning, and attracted loads of trade, which trade many said did not exist and would not come.

Northernrelic wrote:

Like it or not Bradford and it's centre have taken an absolute hammering over the last few decades, and while they might finally be filling in the hole at the centre I don't see the crowds flocking back from the Trinity Centre

I do, though. Westfield, or whatever they call themselves, are not fools and their number crunchers could probably already tell you what "footfall" there will be within a modest margin. I can guarantee that tens of thousnads will go down to town when it opens, to have a shufty, and there's the opportunity for other city centre businesses to set their stalls out and increase business. People with ambition and a good plan, like Les at the Sparrow or William of Jacob's, see a glass half full, not half empty and get on with the impossible, and the punters like that.

Build it, and they will come. Said somebody.

Re: O/T Pubs in Bradford : Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:34 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

...
What's the Shoulder of Mutton like nowadays? A good pint of Sam Smith's is getting increasingly hard to find. The move to remain as the cheapest pubs around seems to increasingly guarantee more odd characters inside too, so not sure about the business model!

It remains a good pint of Sam Smith's, and it has that unique beer garden round the back. I don't get to drink much Sam Smith's, but it's a nice pint and a trip to the Shoulder is always welcome. They do have characters, but I don't mind that as long as they're not after punching me!