Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:18 am  

Very sad that a man who cares enough about the club to risk his house and shun cheap gimmicks in favour of financial stability and a man who cares enough about his club to work tirelessly for decades for related charities with no gain for himself can't share the institution they both love. I only know al from what others have said and I'm willing to accept their view as fact as to his lifetime commitment to the club. Likewise they'll appreciate I trust MC equally based on his financial sacrifice and willingness to front up and speak his mind over the bulls and their attempt to sympathy vote their way out of a valid points deduction. Ironically, whether they're great blokes or complete tools, they can still be right and wrong over bringing in a plastic bottle, or apologising for stewarding alike. In my humble opinion, I don't feel the chairman is responsible for the individual actions of a steward and if there's blame, there are certainly middle men who should be taking responsibility before him. I do feel rules apply to the greatest fan or first time visitor alike though a right to discretely exercise a one-off caviat to smooth matters over could easily be applied. Personally, if I'm wronged by a member of staff in a business I tend to berate the individual involved rather than extent blame to the entire institution and even if al's grievance is legitimate, I think it's misplaced to lay it at the feet of the chairman, who like the majority of people on here, only knows what happened via heresay and 3rd party recollection. And if I'm honest, even if Carter WAS completely to blame, would I offset that against the financial stability, order, honesty and pragmatic running of the club we currently enjoy? Then yes, sorry. I don't feel that makes me rose-tinted or naive. I just feel you can't have everything you want in life and should sometimes be grateful for what you have. What we have is a club in a situation we would have bitten hands, wrists and arms off for this time last year. The gates are open for fans like al to come and enjoy said situation as part of the club community they helped build. I hope they can stand side by side with rest of us, including the chairman and do just that because we're weaker without them but together we're stronger. It's up to them.

[PopTart]

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:53 am  

tamargrace wrote:

.....
Posts have been locked previously for personal grievances, if people don't like certain things then that is up to them to do as they wish.
I don't know the circumstances of why a family are refusing to attend anymore so i am not at liberty to respond. I do feel though that with one of the posters being so aggrieved then he/she should either mention what did happen so people can make their own minds up or leave it alone now.

El Rey hasn't asked for opinion on this nor is he discussing on the forum.
It is other people casting opinion on that subject. Some know him, most don't.

While ever the conversation is about "customer service" at Belle Vue I'm inclined to keep it running but we can't really have a crusade for Al on here. It's not like it is a legal issue so no problem to the forum in general, I just don't think it is very classy so may call an end to it if it goes too far.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:08 am  

Rumour13 wrote:

Very sad that a man who cares enough about the club to risk his house and shun cheap gimmicks in favour of financial stability and a man who cares enough about his club to work tirelessly for decades for related charities with no gain for himself can't share the institution they both love. I only know al from what others have said and I'm willing to accept their view as fact as to his lifetime commitment to the club. Likewise they'll appreciate I trust MC equally based on his financial sacrifice and willingness to front up and speak his mind over the bulls and their attempt to sympathy vote their way out of a valid points deduction. Ironically, whether they're great blokes or complete tools, they can still be right and wrong over bringing in a plastic bottle, or apologising for stewarding alike. In my humble opinion, I don't feel the chairman is responsible for the individual actions of a steward and if there's blame, there are certainly middle men who should be taking responsibility before him. I do feel rules apply to the greatest fan or first time visitor alike though a right to discretely exercise a one-off caviat to smooth matters over could easily be applied. Personally, if I'm wronged by a member of staff in a business I tend to berate the individual involved rather than extent blame to the entire institution and even if al's grievance is legitimate, I think it's misplaced to lay it at the feet of the chairman, who like the majority of people on here, only knows what happened via heresay and 3rd party recollection. And if I'm honest, even if Carter WAS completely to blame, would I offset that against the financial stability, order, honesty and pragmatic running of the club we currently enjoy? Then yes, sorry. I don't feel that makes me rose-tinted or naive. I just feel you can't have everything you want in life and should sometimes be grateful for what you have. What we have is a club in a situation we would have bitten hands, wrists and arms off for this time last year. The gates are open for fans like al to come and enjoy said situation as part of the club community they helped build. I hope they can stand side by side with rest of us, including the chairman and do just that because we're weaker without them but together we're stronger. It's up to them.

Good points.

However I'm a great believer that if you don't tell people what you think they are are doing wrong, perceived or real then they have no chance to answer or rectify the situation.

I suppose I shouldn't have zeroed in on Al tbf as I don't know the full story and it was a wider issue than just one poster.

You need the wisdom of Soloman to run a club like ours and as I defended Ted because I knew what a personal toll it took on him I'm more than willing to accept that MC and Co are truing their best - but like Ted it won't always be as good as it could.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:24 am  

Daddycool wrote:

Bren, I have to keep reiterating this, there is still an element of 'clinging on for grim death' we are not out of the woods yet. Can't seem to get that message across to people.

As for a new front man. At what cost and who's paying??

These are genuine questions. A lot, not everyone, keep expecting the club to speculate with cash it simply does not have, on the premise that you have to speculate to accumulate. This happened last week. I asked what happens if it doesn't work, and nobody could answer that?

Just to push on a bit I like Bren don't go for your "step aside" stuff anymore.

You may have believed it once but I reckon the club against your best efforts has got under your skin. If it hadn't I don't reckon you'd still be bothering with a club based in a small city you don't come from.

Don't worry you're not alone, quite a few have fallen to that one - myself for starters as I'm not Wakefield born. Toppo and Andy Kelly were the only Wakefield lads to ever really make the grade as Coaches with Cas lad Kear IMHO the best and who clearly still loves the club. Ditto great players of the last 25 years nearly all of whom are not from Wakey.

I think you care more than you make out and I reckon all being well you want to see it through - you may have other motives (suggested by some in the past about all CEO's not just you) and so long as they don't damage WTRLFC frankly I don't care.

You need the diplomatic skills of Kissinger to crack it with RL fans and it's a big learning curve - all I'm saying is that sometimes you have to accept that the real world doesn't always apply on this forum or at the ground - best of luck on that one

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:39 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I understand that completely - I welcomed the clarity when you explained it last week and as far as I can see, people have got that message. I don't see anyone advocating a return to the boom and bust, smoke and mirrors approach of the Glover/Elston era - that would be a disaster.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the new front man idea either; I'd just like to see you/the club engage with fans a bit more and be a bit less edgy in your dealings with supporters - I'm sure you don't intend it, but some of your communication is prickly and creates the impression that you're close to throwing in the towel; not the best way to inspire confidence in your stakeholders. Even if you do actually feel that way, its probably best not to let us know.

As for the speculate to accumulate argument - I don't think I ever put it in such simple terms, but there is a reasonable case to suggest that if you want to get us out of the 'grim death' phase, some element of paying it forward will be required; I wouldn't advocate spending willy-nilly in the faint hope that something works and we hit paydirt, but as in all things, the absolutes of an argument are not always the only options available. Spending some money to make more money - if done in a structured, planned and well monitored way - is not the same as a Glover style, 'pay now, worry later' approach. My suggestion was that a marketing professional be engaged to do some of that work - you confirmed that it was in train and I welcomed that news - do you have an update by the way?

I hope this doesn't appear negative; if it does, I've got it wrong. If there is any criticism, it's from a critical friend who has the same interest as you - a club that is vibrant, successful and respected both within, and outwith, Wakefield.

Sorry Bren, I haven't explained myself properly on the old'speculate to accumulate' scenario .

If you physically have 0 pounds. How do you attempt to try something that involves an element of cash upfront for a return later?? Because that's what we face. We never have spare cash??

And yes we are still looking at the best way to solve our marketing dilemma

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:47 pm  

Daddycool wrote:

Sorry Bren, I haven't explained myself properly on the old'speculate to accumulate' scenario .

If you physically have 0 pounds. How do you attempt to try something that involves an element of cash upfront for a return later?? Because that's what we face. We never have spare cash??

I suppose it comes to borrowing money but I suspect Trinity’s credit score doesn't make pleasant reading.

Is it correct that next year the full cap is covered by central funding (subject to any deductions Trinity have to take due to advanced payments last year)? If so would there be any scope to take from that pot to build the marketing of the club (I can’t imagine Trinity would be up to the £1.8m cap limit).

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:51 pm  

vastman wrote:

Just to push on a bit I like Bren don't go for your "step aside" stuff anymore.

You may have believed it once but I reckon the club against your best efforts has got under your skin. If it hadn't I don't reckon you'd still be bothering with a club based in a small city you don't come from.

Don't worry you're not alone, quite a few have fallen to that one - myself for starters as I'm not Wakefield born. Toppo and Andy Kelly were the only Wakefield lads to ever really make the grade as Coaches with Cas lad Kear IMHO the best and who clearly still loves the club. Ditto great players of the last 25 years nearly all of whom are not from Wakey.

I think you care more than you make out and I reckon all being well you want to see it through - you may have other motives (suggested by some in the past about all CEO's not just you) and so long as they don't damage WTRLFC frankly I don't care.

You need the diplomatic skills of Kissinger to crack it with RL fans and it's a big learning curve - all I'm saying is that sometimes you have to accept that the real world doesn't always apply on this forum or at the ground - best of luck on that one

I love certain elements, I hate others. I will always love the game of rugby league, so whether I'm here or not I would still watch the game from amateur up to super league etc etc

Reason to carry on. I see an opportunity to reclaim some of the money I have put in over the last 3 years. Not all of it but some of it. I've had quite a lot of enjoyment at times that money couldn't buy. At the same time, it is my pension pot and my kids future that I've been spending. So I think a little of it back isn't to being too greedy. I've retired once. And I will retire again once my kids are thru school. I'm afraid the lure of Portugal, is just slightly more then trinity. Sorry if this sounds un-positive in any way. But I've not lied yet, and I dont intend to start now.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:54 pm  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

I suppose it comes to borrowing money but I suspect Trinity’s credit score doesn't make pleasant reading.

Is it correct that next year the full cap is covered by central funding (subject to any deductions Trinity have to take due to advanced payments last year)? If so would there be any scope to take from that pot to build the marketing of the club (I can’t imagine Trinity would be up to the £1.8m cap limit).

We've a balance sheet that shows a negative of 2.5 million. We couldn't borrow a cup of tea!

It's slightly more complicated then that. The full cap is covered by central funding, but part of it is to go towards community projects and to fund the academy. And no we won't be at 1.8 m cap

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:40 pm  

Daddycool wrote:

I love certain elements, I hate others. I will always love the game of rugby league, so whether I'm here or not I would still watch the game from amateur up to super league etc etc

Reason to carry on. I see an opportunity to reclaim some of the money I have put in over the last 3 years. Not all of it but some of it. I've had quite a lot of enjoyment at times that money couldn't buy. At the same time, it is my pension pot and my kids future that I've been spending. So I think a little of it back isn't to being too greedy. I've retired once. And I will retire again once my kids are thru school. I'm afraid the lure of Portugal, is just slightly more then trinity. Sorry if this sounds un-positive in any way. But I've not lied yet, and I dont intend to start now.

Fair enough.

A safe pair of hands for a few more years and a stadium or stadium upgrade will do me - oh and no relegation… not much to ask is it and you can have your money back with interest for me unlikely though that is

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:30 pm  

Daddycool wrote:

I'm afraid the lure of Portugal, is just slightly more then trinity. Sorry if this sounds un-positive in any way. But I've not lied yet, and I dont intend to start now.

To risk censure but I must agree with your reference to Portugal or more accurately the Algarve. It is indeed a lure that draws me back several times each year and yes it is at the expense of watching Wakefield and I am a season ticket holder of many years. I guess like me it is the golf that draws you back and the food so yes I understand why you cannot commit indefinitely to Wakefield because if I don't and I have watched them over 30 years why should a relative newcomer to the club.

All we ask is that during your tenure you do not let the club become an embarrassment again to the supporters and the rest of RL. If you do that, then you can consider your tenure a success, we as supporters do not expect trophies at Wakefield (it would be nice) but we do ask for a club to support.