Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:08 pm  

G1 wrote:

I was making a light hearted comment but I have to disagree.

Are today's players fitter? Yes but yesteryear's players would be if they trained full time.
Are today's players bigger? Yes, but see above.
Are today's players more skillfull? Not in my opinion. The game is more about athletic ability than guile and skill
Are today's players tougher? Don't make me laugh

I think it's today's players who wouldn't last 20 minutes of one game in days gone by. Imagine Ian Kirke vs Kelvon Skerrett, Karl Fairbank or Kurt Sorenson.

They can be as tough and dumb as you want, but those three wouldn't even make championship sides these days. They were exactly the sort of players who you would never have got any more pace out of, and wouldn't be able to match the modern player. All three didn't have the attitude and work ethic that is so important these days. They were stars of their own era.

The previous game has gone. Let it go, and embrace what we have now.

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:09 pm  

G1 wrote:

I was making a light hearted comment but I have to disagree.

Are today's players fitter? Yes but yesteryear's players would be if they trained full time.
Are today's players bigger? Yes, but see above.
Are today's players more skillfull? Not in my opinion. The game is more about athletic ability than guile and skill
Are today's players tougher? Don't make me laugh

I think it's today's players who wouldn't last 20 minutes of one game in days gone by. Imagine Ian Kirke vs Kelvon Skerrett, Karl Fairbank or Kurt Sorenson.

To be fair mate those listed would destroy Kirke in the warm up!

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:11 pm  

i'd have those three at leeds now and they must be pushing 60!

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:12 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

They can be as tough and dumb as you want, but those three wouldn't even make championship sides these days. They were exactly the sort of players who you would never have got any more pace out of, and wouldn't be able to match the modern player. All three didn't have the attitude and work ethic that is so important these days. They were stars of their own era.

The previous game has gone. Let it go, and embrace what we have now.

With the same pro environment we see nowadays how do you know that?
Their "attitude & ethic" was good enough for the era they grew up and playing in ergo different era/environment they would adjust to it!

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:13 pm  

G1 wrote:

I think it's today's players who wouldn't last 20 minutes of one game in days gone by. Imagine Ian Kirke vs Kelvon Skerrett, Karl Fairbank or Kurt Sorenson.

Hardly a fair comparison to compare one of the most average props in todays game with 3 of the best from their era. I'd imagine the likes of Peacock, Burgess, Graham and Jared Waerea-Hargreaves would just fine in any era.

The regard the game in the 1980s is held in on here is ridiculous at times. Just because it was dirtier doesn't necessarily mean it was any tougher than todays game.

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:15 pm  

CS-There was plenty of skill and genuine biff on show in that era it wasn't all about being "dirtier".

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:22 pm  

rhinoms wrote:

CS-There was plenty of skill and genuine biff on show in that era it wasn't all about being "dirtier".

There was, but defences were slower and more fragmented too. The "biff" as it's so affectionately referred to was nothing more than thuggery and cheap shotting most of the time, there wasn't skill or toughness involved.

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:26 pm  

G1 wrote:

I was making a light hearted comment but I have to disagree.

Are today's players fitter? Yes but yesteryear's players would be if they trained full time.
Are today's players bigger? Yes, but see above.
Are today's players more skillfull? Not in my opinion. The game is more about athletic ability than guile and skill
Are today's players tougher? Don't make me laugh

I think it's today's players who wouldn't last 20 minutes of one game in days gone by. Imagine Ian Kirke vs Kelvon Skerrett, Karl Fairbank or Kurt Sorenson.

I agree in large part. I have no reason to think the top players of that era wouldn't be top players today and vice versa. Some would make it and some wouldn't, both ways.

The players are obviously much fitter, as you say that's down to the full time pro environment today.
I think the players are far, far bigger and the game is far tougher on the body than it was in the 80's & 90's. Now obviously that's mitigated to some degree by the conditioning the players receive but I still think each game is tougher and harder on the body than 20-30 years ago.
Again, this isn't meant as disrespecting the players of that era, just that the modern game is very different.
As for the skill aspect, it's obviously subjective, but I don't necessarily think the players of that era where any more skillfull than players today. Just that the game was very different. I think if you put Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow into the 80's/90's they'd be top players then as they are now. It can seem like players, especially halfbacks & centres where more skillfull then because they had much more time available to look up and see a gap, and defences were far less structured.

As mentioned, put Peacock, Graham etc in I'm sure they'd hold their own.

I'm not someone who thinks everything about the modern game is wonderful, I think it's often a bit boring to watch and the way it's played and refereed often leads to one-sided results. Which is a big problem for the international game. I'm coming around to the view of re-introducing "proper" scrums to try and open the game up a bit more and maybe provide another dimension to play. But I'm also not one who thinks everything about the past was wonderful either.
A top player then would, 99% of the time, be a top player now and vice versa.

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:52 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

There was, but defences were slower and more fragmented too. The "biff" as it's so affectionately referred to was nothing more than thuggery and cheap shotting most of the time, there wasn't skill or toughness involved.

Presumably you're referring to a lack of toughness on the part of the perpetrators. A great deal of toughness was often displayed by those running the ball at the headhunters.

Re: Squad for Salford away : Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:32 pm  

jjb was my clear mom,it is great to see him back and playing so well after his disrupted season,i know that i am biased but we are a far more eager and energetic team when he is on the field,we are certainly going to need his input when the big games come around

big raps too for minchella and walters as they both played very well and certainly look like they deserve a squad place next season without a doubt
both smashing lads too when you meet them