Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:34 pm  

Slugger. Over a million books you say.... So were you one of the 3 waiting for Elston to leave???

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:37 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

Now, that is a fair point.

The point I was trying to make is that there is certainly a perception that the fans are being treated as part of the problem, not the solution; hence my analogy with Ryanair. When the chairman's Twitter feed has a Bill Shankly quote at its head, "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win," and the occasional digs (or what feel like digs) at the commitment of the Wakefield public in backing the team, it is easy to feel like your own commitment is being questioned.

For me, the commitment of anyone who watches Wakefield cannot be questioned. Every season, we know what we are going to get: a team that will win not one piece of silverware, and the highlight will be the occasional big scalp, hopefully against Leeds or Cas, with the outside chance of a play-off spot before being dumped out with barely a sniff of Old Trafford or Wembley. It's a never-ending trail of false dawns followed by bust, of limping through yet another crisis. Anyone who chooses to spend any of their time and money on that cause should never have their commitment questioned. Sanity maybe. Commitment? No.

People buy season tickets for different reasons. Some buy them because they make small financial sense if they go to all the games. Some, and I suspect most, buy them because it's their way of showing their support. Personally, I get to a handful of home games, due to an increasingly busy calendar, but I buy one because I see it as doing my bit. In the same way that I'm in the club lottery, and in the same way that I have a direct debit every month for RFL Cares. It's just me doing my bit.

But I can afford to do those things, and I know that many people can't. That they will pick and choose when funds allow, and perhaps even for no other reason that they will pay to watch a largely lost cause when the going is good or the excitement will be higher. That is their choice and I wouldn't criticise for them for it. After all, the club is better with their occasional twenty quid than without it.

It's my view that as we are so unlikely to ever win anything (or at least in the near future), barring very favourable cup draws, we should try and avoid any negative feelings at all amongst fans, and for some reason we have managed to generate some.

My own view of Michael Carter is that he has done an excellent job at stabilising the club and I'm sure he's a decent guy. I was just making the point that the perceptions generated are not fan-friendly when compared to when Glover was in charge; unfortunately, Glover was balance sheet unfriendly. I made the fair point (or so I thought) that a mix of the two would be great, with some "shout it from the rooftop, everything is fantastic" double-glazing rhetoric backed by sound finances. What I got back was a fairly aggressive response.

I know the chairman ended up with a role he hadn't signed up for when he first became involved, but I sell a product too that involves me meeting people, even though that was never why I started to do ot. I write crime fiction. I've sold over a million books worldwide and am published in French, German, Polish and Russian. Even though relatively speaking one cheesed off reader matters little, I have never responded to anyone in anything other than a friendly manner, even when perhaps my real thoughts were different (even when I got a one star review because their Kindle broke when reading one of mine) because:
- beware the angry internet user
- one happy customer might tell someone else. One unhappy customer all definitely tell someone else, and probably more.

What I have never done is say to someone, "if you think you can do better, buy a typewriter", or suggested to my readers that if they really want me to carry on writing, they had better show more commitment and spread the word.

The point I'm making, in a rather long-winded fashion, is that a perception is being allowed to build that the fans aren't the most welcome, and aren't made to feel welcome, and it's a shame. Despite what I might say, I've no doubt I'll end up buying a season ticket, but I just wish I felt like we're all in it together a bit more. Wakefield has always been a family club, with the supporters at its heart. Look at what Snowie and others did earlier in the year with the barriers. Maybe I read things wrongly, but the perception I have is that some of that is being lost, and I am clearly not the only one.

This sums up EXACTLY how I feel about the current situation. End of the day the policy about the plastic bottle is wrong, if the club implemented that policy and wouldn't apologise to Al after he was thrown out then for me the club is at fault and someone needs to swallow their pride.

I also look at some of the things MC posts aimed at fans and think it is very passive-aggressive and almost like the mentality of someone who now thinks he is owed something by everyone. Maybe he is, but you won't get far acting like it. That's my perception and it seems I am not the only one. I understand the bloke is good with his figures but it seems we could do with someone who is a bit of a better wordsmith... Slugger, 1 million books you say? How fitting for such a job

That said, as a season ticket holder, I will be renewing as I am happy with the direction the club is going and the above is a minor gripe for me personally.

One thing though: it seems silly not having a student season ticket. I worry about how we plan to entice our future fan base through the gates when prices are being hiked up in the current climate. I personally can't afford a season ticket, it is the one and only thing I ask for as a christmas present.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:40 pm  

The reason for no student prices is because in the past people have taken the mickey by being put on a course through work etc and qualifying for an NUS card when they are no more of a student that me or thee. It's the selfish supporters fault who have ruined it for everyone.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:42 pm  

Mable_Syrup wrote:

The reason for no student prices is because in the past people have taken the mickey by being put on a course through work etc and qualifying for an NUS card when they are no more of a student that me or thee. It's the selfish supporters fault who have ruined it for everyone.

Maybe so, but if these people are then no longer turning up at all, it seems like a daft loss of revenue? Especially taking into account merchandise sales e.t.c

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:45 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

Now, that is a fair point.

The point I was trying to make is that there is certainly a perception that the fans are being treated as part of the problem, not the solution; hence my analogy with Ryanair. When the chairman's Twitter feed has a Bill Shankly quote at its head, "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win," and the occasional digs (or what feel like digs) at the commitment of the Wakefield public in backing the team, it is easy to feel like your own commitment is being questioned.

For me, the commitment of anyone who watches Wakefield cannot be questioned. Every season, we know what we are going to get: a team that will win not one piece of silverware, and the highlight will be the occasional big scalp, hopefully against Leeds or Cas, with the outside chance of a play-off spot before being dumped out with barely a sniff of Old Trafford or Wembley. It's a never-ending trail of false dawns followed by bust, of limping through yet another crisis. Anyone who chooses to spend any of their time and money on that cause should never have their commitment questioned. Sanity maybe. Commitment? No.

People buy season tickets for different reasons. Some buy them because they make small financial sense if they go to all the games. Some, and I suspect most, buy them because it's their way of showing their support. Personally, I get to a handful of home games, due to an increasingly busy calendar, but I buy one because I see it as doing my bit. In the same way that I'm in the club lottery, and in the same way that I have a direct debit every month for RFL Cares. It's just me doing my bit.

But I can afford to do those things, and I know that many people can't. That they will pick and choose when funds allow, and perhaps even for no other reason that they will pay to watch a largely lost cause when the going is good or the excitement will be higher. That is their choice and I wouldn't criticise for them for it. After all, the club is better with their occasional twenty quid than without it.

It's my view that as we are so unlikely to ever win anything (or at least in the near future), barring very favourable cup draws, we should try and avoid any negative feelings at all amongst fans, and for some reason we have managed to generate some.

My own view of Michael Carter is that he has done an excellent job at stabilising the club and I'm sure he's a decent guy. I was just making the point that the perceptions generated are not fan-friendly when compared to when Glover was in charge; unfortunately, Glover was balance sheet unfriendly. I made the fair point (or so I thought) that a mix of the two would be great, with some "shout it from the rooftop, everything is fantastic" double-glazing rhetoric backed by sound finances. What I got back was a fairly aggressive response.

I know the chairman ended up with a role he hadn't signed up for when he first became involved, but I sell a product too that involves me meeting people, even though that was never why I started to do ot. I write crime fiction. I've sold over a million books worldwide and am published in French, German, Polish and Russian. Even though relatively speaking one cheesed off reader matters little, I have never responded to anyone in anything other than a friendly manner, even when perhaps my real thoughts were different (even when I got a one star review because their Kindle broke when reading one of mine) because:
- beware the angry internet user
- one happy customer might tell someone else. One unhappy customer all definitely tell someone else, and probably more.

What I have never done is say to someone, "if you think you can do better, buy a typewriter", or suggested to my readers that if they really want me to carry on writing, they had better show more commitment and spread the word.

The point I'm making, in a rather long-winded fashion, is that a perception is being allowed to build that the fans aren't the most welcome, and aren't made to feel welcome, and it's a shame. Despite what I might say, I've no doubt I'll end up buying a season ticket, but I just wish I felt like we're all in it together a bit more. Wakefield has always been a family club, with the supporters at its heart. Look at what Snowie and others did earlier in the year with the barriers. Maybe I read things wrongly, but the perception I have is that some of that is being lost, and I am clearly not the only one.

Again if you feel I was aggressive I apologise for that. That was and would never be my intention

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:48 pm  

Daddycool wrote:

Again if you feel I was aggressive I apologise for that. That was and would never be my intention

That's fair enough, cheers. One of the perils of the internet is that words can be interpreted in any number of ways, I guess. I was attempting to constructive.

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:49 pm  

Mable_Syrup wrote:

Slugger. Over a million books you say.... So were you one of the 3 waiting for Elston to leave???

If only I got a quid a book!

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:49 pm  

Mable_Syrup wrote:

Slugger. Over a million books you say.... So were you one of the 3 waiting for Elston to leave???

And very good reads too, I have all his books,

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:52 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

If only I got a quid a book!

Well make them more interesting then!

Re: Michael Carter calls on Wildcats fans : Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:54 pm  

JINJER wrote:

Well make them more interesting then!