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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:51 am  
Remember BG has thoughtfully lowered the costs for the rest of the season.
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:02 pm  
MicktheGled wrote:
The potential investor at the DW expressed his/her utter frustration at repeated attempts (from Wednesday 27th) to contact Brendan Guilfoyle. All attempts, sadly to no avail.

I'm not claiming foul play, but I firmly believe the game changed on Monday evening - the gentleman from Greenwoods.

Another frequent poster on here made the Sherlock Holmes discovery - in that the whole demeanour and expression of Mr Guilfoyle, was shell-shocked at what this gentleman was saying - in front of the media and 500 witnesses.

The above was the game changer.

As of 12:25pm on Thursday 5th July 2012.

There are now Five bids on the table for Mr Guilfoyle's consideration.


So he turned up at the Guidepost to meet heaven knows who, having purposely ignored multiple offers in writing? email? phone? He then reacted with fake surprise when someone stood up at a public meeting and said I've been trying to get hold of you?

Whatever you do folks, don't let the tiniest bit of logic get in the way of keeping this one running.
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:11 pm  
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:
Are you seriously asking whether we have interested parties queuing up to pay off the debts in full? Seriously?


that's the problem, loads of fans are now thinking we have investors interested in saving the club, when in reality it is more likely no-one wants to pay HMRC the £500k+ they are owed and the offers are to buy the assets of club once the club is liquidated as HMRC want their pound of flesh and will continue the winding up action
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:12 pm  
:?

How would "logic" help anyone to understand that peculiar scenario, then?

Guilfoyle seemingly did not know this chap or his group had been trying to contact him. The words "purposely ignored" are I think yours.

Guilfoyle reacted with surprise at the intervention. The word "fake" is i think yours.

Prior to the meeting at which complaint about lines of cimmunication was directly voiced, there were no buyers. Shortly after it there seemingly are 5. Logic would suggest that the party of the chap who spoke up are likely to be one of them.
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:04 pm  
Sorry I thought Mick was saying something other than that Guilfoyle is really lazy and just can't be bothered returning calls.

I don't know we didn't have a buyer before the meeting although Martyn Sadler says he knew of two consortium preparing bids last week, and I don't know we have 5 now. However, I'm intrigued to know what you think happened at the meeting to facilitate such a change.
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:17 pm  
pie.warrior wrote:
that's the problem, loads of fans are now thinking we have investors interested in saving the club, when in reality it is more likely no-one wants to pay HMRC the £500k+ they are owed and the offers are to buy the assets of club once the club is liquidated as HMRC want their pound of flesh and will continue the winding up action


Can we kill all the confusion about liquidation?

And about the debts?

Unless someone is feeling VERY benevolant, the debts in their present form are history anyway as far as any new purchaser is concerned. The company has protection from its creditors whilst in administration. No buyer need take on ANY liabilities, other than those of any employees TUPEd across (see why they sacked them all on Monday...?). If a CVA results, the company retains x% of its liabilities and exits administration without proceeding to liquidation.

Liquidation is the LAST stage of the process, one that is commenced only when all other avenues have either been exhausted or what can be sold as any semblance of a going concern has been. AFTER.

The usual outcomes of adminsitration are:

1 - Assets sold to Newco; administrator uses proceeds to pay off himself (if the administration is "unfunded", as ours is) then make distributions to creditors as far as possible and in the statutory order of precedence. When he is discharged, anything left is passed to a liquidator to wind up and make any remaining distributions to creditors. Note AT THE END; or

2 - A Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) is proposed and agreed. Under this formal and supervised process, instead of flogging the assets to Newco, the existing company survives, and the creditors agree to accept x pence in the pound. In such cases, once the creditor have agree the CVA the administrator is discharged and the management (old or new) and owners (old or new) continue. If I was putting in a bid for the Bulls, I would be looking at exiting via a CVA if at all possible and affordable (I think HMRC would get sod all through any other route). That way, the same legal entity - and its contracts etc, unless already nullified by insolvency - should survive. Little things like the SL licence and the Odsal lease and the run-off agreement with the council as well as all the player contracts sort of spring to mind? Also the little matter of not necessarily resolving the shareholding problem though!

3 - Liquidation. Either (a) of the husk that is left after the business activity or assets have been sold off, or (b) of the whole lot if no buyer for the going concern has been found and the administrator concludes that continuing the administration is pointless and just incurring extra costs to further reduce what is left for the creditors. In the first case, you are usuallly talking months or years down the line, depending on how long the administrator has funds to be paid; in the second case, in an unfunded administration (like ours) the administrator could set a fairly short deadline beyond which he has to admit the administration has failed and the company must be liquidated.

3b is the situation the Bulls currently face if the administrator does not receive credible bids that provide a better return for the creditors. But once a winding-up order has been granted and a company is in liquidation, there is no way back. the assets are realised for cash ASAP, all the remaining staff are dismissed, and all contracts are nullified. We want to hope it is instead 1 or 2.
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:22 pm  
M@islebugs wrote:
Sorry I thought Mick was saying something other than that Guilfoyle is really lazy and just can't be bothered returning calls.

I don't know we didn't have a buyer before the meeting although Martyn Sadler says he knew of two consortium preparing bids last week, and I don't know we have 5 now. However, I'm intrigued to know what you think happened at the meeting to facilitate such a change.


You have accused me (unfairly IMO) in the past of being unsually-supportive of the previous regime and agin the alternative.

Quite a few people now have observed to me that you seem to be unusually-supportive of the administrator, and agin any alternative POV. I have a number of texts on my phone and PMs etc on here and elsewhere saying precisely that.

Doubtless their observations about you are as unfounded as yours were about me?
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:32 pm  
Adey perhaps you can enlighten me but to date we only seem to have seen your option 1 or bust - no proposal for a CVA?

Equally I am assuming HMRC can precipitate matters if they don't think there is going to be a positive outcome for them?

So:

Tax debt - maybe £400k
Obligations under lease?
sundry creditors - maybe £200k

So any CVA would need HMRC to join in to be approved
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:46 pm  
Various other creditors can crystalise on insolvency, but you need 75% of creditors who have proved their debt to agree before a CVA can be imposed.

That means that HMRC could almost certainly vote down a CVA.

The big question for HMRC would be could they get any more if the assets were sold off instead? Especially since I suspect that there would be sod all left of the creditors after the administration fees and trading losses since appointment and extensive further liabilities that crystalise on insolvency.

And whether HMRC believed the proponents of the CVA were acting honourably and genuinely trying to do their best for all parties.

Whilst often the previous management or shareholders are often seen by HMRC as the villains, especially if they are then trying to get hold of the assets cheaply without any real attempt to address the liabilities, it occurs to me that this might be a different situation. HMRC could form the view that the previous management - through the pledge and other actions - had acted in good faith, and therefore it should not be assumed they would necessarily be hostile to any reasonable proposals from that quarter. This could maybe give any bid from that quarter, if it involved a CVA, an edge. Provided of course the shareholding shambles was sorted at the same time!
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Re: Is it time for the RFL... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:47 pm  
Adeybull wrote:
You have accused me (unfairly IMO) in the past of being unsually-supportive of the previous regime and agin the alternative.

Quite a few people now have observed to me that you seem to be unusually-supportive of the administrator, and agin any alternative POV. I have a number of texts on my phone and PMs etc on here and elsewhere saying precisely that.

Doubtless their observations about you are as unfounded as yours were about me?



I'm not remotely supportive of anyone and I don't care who sends you texts or PMs. You've put enough time into it it's hardly surprising you have a coterie of acolytes who respond to your back slapping by leaping to your defence both on here and in private. In fact, I've made the case to a mod that your dominance of the board is a force for ill.

I also note your speed to deal with any challenges to the ongoing conspiracy theorising by accusing people of being in one camp, when ironically lots of posters on here have worked out precisely what you are.

For me, I'm deeply suspicious of this ongoing conspiracy theorising and can only conclude there are some much happier to say their predictions were proved correct, than in the welfare of the club. I've no idea what Chris Caisley has done to you personally and the 'fictional account' stuff is quite worrying.
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