Re: the new structure finalized. : Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:28 pm  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

But the flip side of that is that while Catalans, Salford and Widnes have been protected, other clubs have had their route to the top flight blocked. Why are those teams any more deserving than Championship teams if they aren't actually performing up to standard?

That depends on where and how and why you set the standard for them to reach. If not finishing bottom is the only standard to reach then yes they failed to meet that standard. But is that standard the right standard to drive RL forward to growth and prosperity.

In the cases you mention, not finishing bottom wasn’t the standard set for those clubs. Other things relating to more long terms drivers of growth like facilities and youth development were.

It is worth noting that Crusaders have been the only club to finish bottom twice (and lets remember it was the most ambitious of our franchises), and all the clubs to finish bottom also got to the play-offs or are there now.

2 seasons ago cas finished joint bottom with Widnes, only points difference above them, do you think we would have seen Adam Milner, Daz Clarke, Holmes, Massey etc get the games they did under the threat of relegation?

Re: the new structure finalized. : Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:40 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

That depends on where and how and why you set the standard for them to reach. If not finishing bottom is the only standard to reach then yes they failed to meet that standard. But is that standard the right standard to drive RL forward to growth and prosperity.

In the cases you mention, not finishing bottom wasn’t the standard set for those clubs. Other things relating to more long terms drivers of growth like facilities and youth development were.

It is worth noting that Crusaders have been the only club to finish bottom twice (and lets remember it was the most ambitious of our franchises), and all the clubs to finish bottom also got to the play-offs or are there now.

2 seasons ago cas finished joint bottom with Widnes, only points difference above them, do you think we would have seen Adam Milner, Daz Clarke, Holmes, Massey etc get the games they did under the threat of relegation?

Excellent post and he very reason that we went away from P/R.
With the exception of Leeds, Saints and Wigan, survival will supersede junior development in all other clubs.

There did need to be some reward for success in the second tier and base on playing performance, Fev deserve a shot at the "big time" but, they will never become a "big" club due to the size of the local population (unless Cas and Wakefield ceased to exist)

Re: the new structure finalized. : Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:41 am  

The one thing that concerns me is that they haven't decided yet about whether there will still be Dual Registration under the new system.

Surely not.

Think of the impracticality of it and the opportunity of even further abuse of the system.

You could easily end up with 2 DR paired teams in the "Qualifying 8" and a player having to continually look down at his shirt to see who he is playing for that day. It leaves the game wide open to corruption and manipulation of the worst kind. The SL team will decide who is available for loan depending on who the Championship team is playing that day and whether it is beneficial to the SL club for them to win or lose.

The whole thing would become completely farcical and, in my opinion. would be almost tantamount to match-fixing. It would certainly invite suspicion and controversy if nothing else.

On top of all this, the whole point of the new system and the "Qualification League" is to prove a club's suitability and readiness for SL. This would hardly be a true reflection if the said club did it with a load of borrowed players.

No. It simply has to go.

Re: the new structure finalized. : Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:01 pm  

Agreed.

To avoid the problems set out above, the acceptable options, in order of preference, are:

1. Super League clubs required to have a team in a Super League under 21's league. With agreement as to how many "over age" players are allowed to be in the 17 for any match. If Championship clubs can afford it, why not Super League clubs? Then no dual registration at all.

2. Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie the new League 1) club NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.

3. The Championship Under 20's league to be changed to Under 21's, with agreement as to how many "over age" players are allowed to be in the 17 for any match. Then Super League dual registered players can only play for a Championship club's under 21 side.

Re: the new structure finalized. : Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:23 pm  

The DR issues is quite simple to solve, any players DR agreement ends for that season if their parent club ends in the same "8" as their DR club.

I'd be surprised if the situation ever (or more than rarely) arises anyway.

Re: the new structure finalized. : Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:03 pm  

Him wrote:

The DR issues is quite simple to solve, any players DR agreement ends for that season if their parent club ends in the same "8" as their DR club.

I'd be surprised if the situation ever (or more than rarely) arises anyway.

There should be no possibility of the situation arising. How often does the RFL legislate after the event (usually depending upon which club is involved and to suit it's current agenda).

End Dual Registration now!

Re: the new structure finalized. : Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:46 pm  

Fax Machine wrote:

There should be no possibility of the situation arising. How often does the RFL legislate after the event (usually depending upon which club is involved and to suit it's current agenda).

End Dual Registration now!

But the problem is solved if what I said is implemented. Either that or the parent club be forced to either recall the player (therefore ending the DR for that season) or make him available for all the other clubs' games.
But it won't happen often anyway.

Re: the new structure finalized. : Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:17 am  

Him wrote:

But the problem is solved if what I said is implemented.

No it isn't.

If you want to maintain the integrity of any competition, you can't allow the possibility of (in the case of RL) of a Super League club having the on-going ability to manipulate the outcome of a competition in which it (or its direct competitors) may be playing in the same season.

Unfortunately, FM, the RFL has said DR will continue in 2015 "in some form". So, I'll put this forward as the best form of DR (if we have to have it):

Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie new 'League 1') club and NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.

Re: the new structure finalized. : Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:05 am  

Mr Churchill wrote:

No it isn't.

If you want to maintain the integrity of any competition, you can't allow the possibility of (in the case of RL) of a Super League club having the on-going ability to manipulate the outcome of a competition in which it (or its direct competitors) may be playing in the same season.

Unfortunately, FM, the RFL has said DR will continue in 2015 "in some form". So, I'll put this forward as the best form of DR (if we have to have it):

Super League clubs can only have their dual registered players play for a Championship 1 (ie new 'League 1') club and NOT Championship clubs. Each Super League club can have no more than 3 of its players play on dual reg for any one club in a season. eg If, over a season, a Super League club sends out 12 players to play on dual reg, it would have to spread them across at least 4 different Championship 1 clubs.

If my suggestion was implemented, how can a SL side manipulate the competition?

[Nat (Rugby_Aholic)]

Re: the new structure finalized. : Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:20 am  

A Championship team could load its squad full of DR players and earn a place in the middle eight. Then all of a sudden the DR players disappear and they are getting beat 80-0 for 7 games.