Re: Your England Team : Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:34 am  

The biggest dilemma with the England team is what to do with Tomkins/Hardaker. Whether Zac plays 1 and Sam 6 or to play 1 at FB and not play the other. I'm not sure playing Sam at 6 is a great idea given he has not played there since he was a kid however I do think he would be capable and if I was picking the team I would take the gamble. Picking players out of position seems to work for Australia. I think SM will pick Sam at 1 because of Zac's indiscretions at the World Cup and since. The back row proved more difficult than I thought.

However this is my team not SM's

1 Hardaker
2 Charnley
3 Reed
4 Watkins
5 Hall
6 S. Tomkins
7 Widdop
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Hill
11 Westwood
12 Ferres
13 O'Loughlin

14 Clarke
15 G Burgess
16 Taylor
17 Westerman

18 Ratchford
19 Briscoe
20 Shenton
21 Lunt
22 Huby
23 Amor
24 Whitehead

Re: Your England Team : Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:51 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

Back row is a worry. We lack a wrecking ball, ball handling back rower now Surgess has gone. Plenty of solid options but no game breakers. We're OK at prop I think, although, below the top 3 the rest are unproven, Amor, Walmsley, Huby etc. But, I'd argue that current crop of Aussie props are amongst the most ordinary I've seen from them.

Agree about Aussie props being average. Still think Aussies may struggle (famous last words) when they have to replace their spine of Slater, Smith, Cronk, Thurston. They are some of the greatest players of all time who have played together for years.

Agree back row is a worry but we've some good ones for a few years time. Bateman, Currie, Ward etc

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:02 am  

NSW showed how you have to defend against Thurston and co - strong inside defence to pressure them and not just standing back and watching them throw the ball around. Far too often GB/England seem to stand back and admire the Aussie playmakers, then seem stunned when they setup lovely looking tries.

I pointed out the lack of quality in the back row last year and was told I was talking cr*p. I think its a really big problem for England, especially with Sam Burgess gone.

Another weakness is having to rotate Roby. That means England have to have a hooker on the bench (or even worse move the halfbacks around), rather than another big forward.

Hardaker/Tomkins is one of the most interesting selection dilemmas, as is 6 and 7 - I'd assume Widdopp has to be there, but also Sinfield if he's fit and selected as well. Given that Tomkins is a must, Hardaker would probably miss out, be picked in the centres or (possibly) on the bench. Given that Hardaker can cover 1-5 that may not be the worst move if we can avoid a hooker on the bench.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:09 am  

If there is a problem with rotating Roby, simple, just play Clark for 80 minutes.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:19 am  

Towns88 wrote:

If there is a problem with rotating Roby, simple, just play Clark for 80 minutes.

It's a great issue for England to have trying to fit both Clark and Roby in. I expect Clark's form will bring the best out of Roby at the end of the year because if it doesn't he's in danger of losing his position.

On form Clark should be the first name on the team sheet.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:33 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

It's a great issue for England to have trying to fit both Clark and Roby in. I expect Clark's form will bring the best out of Roby at the end of the year because if it doesn't he's in danger of losing his position.

On form Clark should be the first name on the team sheet.

It's funny how no one seems to think that roby's form is anything to shout about. He's so hugely important to the saints team - he was taken off for 20 minutes against Bradford and we conceded 4 times! He's topping 50 tackles a game with alarming regularity and is just the glue that holds saints together at times. Perhaps not as flashy as Clark, but just as good.

Also, not sure why Roby "needs" to be rotated, he's been playing without being so for the best part of 2 years. If were playing only one hooker it has to be Roby.

That said, rotating between Clark and Roby is the best option of all imo, the 4 props we have are capable of playing longer minutes then were actualy giving them, and there's no once actually worth dislodging the second hooker for in the back row

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:07 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

It's funny how no one seems to think that roby's form is anything to shout about. He's so hugely important to the saints team - he was taken off for 20 minutes against Bradford and we conceded 4 times! He's topping 50 tackles a game with alarming regularity and is just the glue that holds saints together at times. Perhaps not as flashy as Clark, but just as good.

Also, not sure why Roby "needs" to be rotated, he's been playing without being so for the best part of 2 years. If were playing only one hooker it has to be Roby.

That said, rotating between Clark and Roby is the best option of all imo, the 4 props we have are capable of playing longer minutes then were actualy giving them, and there's no once actually worth dislodging the second hooker for in the back row

I don't watch Roby every week but when I do he doesn't look the same player as in years gone by especially in attack. It's no shame to be overtaken by a fresher, quicker version of himself though which is what's happened IMO. Roby is a top class hooker and for so long he's been nailed on to be England's 9 but he's now in competition with a lad who I believe has not only been the best hooker in superleague this year but the best player.

It's a great position for England to be in tbh. That competition should drive them both and others to keep improving.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:41 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I don't watch Roby every week but when I do he doesn't look the same player as in years gone by especially in attack. It's no shame to be overtaken by a fresher, quicker version of himself though which is what's happened IMO. Roby is a top class hooker and for so long he's been nailed on to be England's 9 but he's now in competition with a lad who I believe has not only been the best hooker in superleague this year but the best player.

It's a great position for England to be in tbh. That competition should drive them both and others to keep improving.

The only criticism Roby can get this season is that hes getting through so much defensive work it does affect his attacking game - but thats more a criticism of the pack around him at times! Roby showed precisely how close Clark is in the saints vs Cas game - everyones entitled to their opinion though its much better to have these arguments than to be struggling to name who should have the place!

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:58 am  

I'd probably go with Hardaker in the centres, it's the one position we still seem to struggle to produce quality players in this country. Watkins is the only international standard specialist British centre in SL IMO. Players like Shenton, Atkins and Cudjoe are excellent SL players but always look out of their depth at international level. Reed is another option, but I think if Hardaker finishes this season in his pre-ban form then he should be in the starting XIII.

We've got plenty of good young forwards, and I think this year's 4N should be the start of phasing out a lot of our 30+ players. I've got Lockers in there because he's too good not to pick if he's available, but I agree with everyone who has stated concerns about his injuries, and it may well be we need to start thinking of a new long-term 13.

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Hardaker
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield (though I think this year should definitely be the time to start looking at more long-term options, he will always be McNamara's first pick)
Graham
Roby
Hill
Farrell
Ferres
O'Loughlin

G Burgess
Taylor/Walmsley/Amor/Huby
Whitehead/Westwood/Bateman - possibly Joel Tomkins depending on how he plays on his return, he's looking an absolute monster
Clark

Re: Your England Team : Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:11 am  

I think the biggest cause for concern in this England team is Steve McNamara because I wouldn't put it past him to rangi chase in with sinfield again