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23/08/2014

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:40 pm  
Andy Gilder wrote:
Blimey. I'd hate to see what would happen if Leeds weren't still right in contention for three trophies this season.

The structures are all wrong. The coach is rubbish. If all our players played for other teams they would be world-beaters.


Well I'm bumped in Gary Hetherington today whilst doing the Leeds 10k, was tempted to tell him what a useless job he's doing at our club.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:56 pm  
Juan Cornetto wrote:
Given that this certainly is all conjecture on your part Sal.

This season Moon has made 204 carries and 15 try assists and Watkins 255 carries and 10 assists. So Moon has a 25% better try assist per carry record.

In addition Moon (34 offloads) also has a 43% better offload per carry record than Watkins (24) too.


Again far too simplistic - you can make the stats say virtually anything you want, the are an indication, a part of the story not the whole story.

We must as usual agree to differ.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:01 pm  
Is anyone really trying to say Moon is a better centre than Watkins?

Deary me.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:38 am  
G1 wrote:
Is anyone really trying to say Moon is a better centre than Watkins?

Deary me.



No ! But he is a different type of centre.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:19 am  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Again far too simplistic - you can make the stats say virtually anything you want, the are an indication, a part of the story not the whole story.

We must as usual agree to differ.



Not simplistic at all. You made a statement that was wrong and cannot be backed up with facts.

Sal Paradise wrote:
Given that Leeds attack mostly down his side his try and assist ratio is bound to be higher - would Watkins create and score more with the same level of supply I for one would say yes. It is all conjecture


The stats prove that Watkins in fact sees more of the ball than Moon and that Moon is more effective with the ball in hand on current form. This is not to say Moon is the better centre. I rate both very highly - Watkins has more natural individual talent and is an absolute joy to watch while Moon manages to be consistently and equally effective overall despite lacking the same silky god given talents. The perfect match.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am  
G1 wrote:
Is anyone really trying to say Moon is a better centre than Watkins?

Deary me.


No.

However Moon on current form is equally, if not more, effective for the side. He was last year too.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:49 am  
Juan Cornetto wrote:
Not simplistic at all. You made a statement that was wrong and cannot be backed up with facts.

The stats prove that Watkins in fact sees more of the ball than Moon and that Moon is more effective with the ball in hand on current form. This is not to say Moon is the better centre. I rate both very highly - Watkins has more natural individual talent and is an absolute joy to watch while Moon manages to be consistently and equally effective overall despite lacking the same silky god given talents. The perfect match.


As I said we must agree to differ - it would interesting to see how much ball Watkins receives in the opponents 30 compared to Moon and who then makes the best use of the ball. Watkins may have had more ball but it is the quality of the ball that makes the difference something the stats cannot reveal or have not as yet revealed?

Also Moon has Hall outside him that is a huge factor in his assist numbers - Watkins doesn't have that luxury.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:15 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
As I said we must agree to differ - it would interesting to see how much ball Watkins receives in the opponents 30 compared to Moon and who then makes the best use of the ball. Watkins may have had more ball but it is the quality of the ball that makes the difference something the stats cannot reveal or have not as yet revealed?

Also Moon has Hall outside him that is a huge factor in his assist numbers - Watkins doesn't have that luxury.



But you made out that Moon had more ball and therefore more chances. Do you now accept that this was incorrect?

So now you move the argument to quality of ball with an assumption that Watkins has received less quality ball than Moon. Well you cannot prove this assumption either. I recall Moon making some amazing try assists out of nothing with hand and foot. With the poor form of our halves I would suggest neither centre has had really consistent good ball.

Early season Watkins had the luxury of an in form Briscoe while Hall was in rather bad form. Since then the wingers form has switched. However there is a good understand between Moon and Hall a credit to both players whereas Watkins and Briscoe have not gelled yet - too many balls passed into touch etc which has to be the responsibility of both players.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:24 pm  
Blame McDermott all you like. I reckon Ablett has more savvy in the centres than either Moon or Watkins. He may not be as gifted but he poses more of a threat than either IMO, particularly close to the opponent's line.
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Re: Big problems for leeds : Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:28 pm  
Juan Cornetto wrote:
But you made out that Moon had more ball and therefore more chances. Do you now accept that this was incorrect?

So now you move the argument to quality of ball with an assumption that Watkins has received less quality ball than Moon. Well you cannot prove this assumption either. I recall Moon making some amazing try assists out of nothing with hand and foot. With the poor form of our halves I would suggest neither centre has had really consistent good ball.

Early season Watkins had the luxury of an in form Briscoe while Hall was in rather bad form. Since then the wingers form has switched. However there is a good understand between Moon and Hall a credit to both players whereas Watkins and Briscoe have not gelled yet - too many balls passed into touch etc which has to be the responsibility of both players.


My initial point was Moon's consistent running towards the touch line cramps his winger - on Thursday Moon was twice tackled into touch having received the ball at least 20 yards inside the line.

You countered with some stats that suggested Moon was more effective than Watkins - I suggested the stats can be misleading - I suggested having Hall outside him helps his assist figures - you are suggesting Briscoe was an asset earlier in the season - Watkins has a much better understanding with BJB than Briscoe - where do we stop?

We must as usual agree to differ as I suggested several posts ago
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