Re: Big problems for leeds : Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:30 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So much nonsense spoken about structure from folk who either haven't played or coached. Of course Leeds practice defensive and attacking structures and these are applied, or not, on the field by the players. When the team make mistakes and suffer periods with poor form it never occurs to some that these are player errors. It is all part of sport.

Around 12 months ago whilst people were just repetitively coming out with "props/team too old" I pointed out that scoring tries was the problem. We were topping the table for metres made so we must've been doing something ok in the forwards. Granted the back 3 make a lot of metres for us (but people also argue that our backs don't see enough of the ball) so to be top the rest of team must be contributing too to that.

Likewise this year we've made the most metres forward by quite a comfortable distance that won't be caught by any other team in the remaining games. So if we're making the yards forward it's obvious we must be getting down the other end quite a bit but the points for doesn't tell this.

It's also not a "poor result" thing because I highlighted post Warrington at home in the 2nd round this year. We won 18-12 but we should've easily doubled our points in that game.

Saints away was perhaps the clearest example of what the problem is, it's a risk free approach to getting over the line. Let's just run at them and hope they break. I also believe this is why we've conceded less points in the last two years compared to McDermott's first two years as we've not lost field position and possession from aimlessly/risking trying to throw the ball around thus helping us defensively by not letting teams better starting positions to their sets.

Last night showed this, first half we tried keeping it alive and it did work to the extent of we got 3 tries.....but we also conceded 3 tries. 2nd half we didn't try keep it alive as much, hence only 6 points conceded but only 6 scored.

2011/2012 attack was the problem of just thinking throwing it around was the answer. In 2013/2014 we've flipped 180 to being too conservative with the ball......we need to find somewhere in the middle.

Re: Big problems for leeds : Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:01 pm  

Jamie101 wrote:

If it happens again in that game though, my reaction will be interesting...

Why? Do you start turning green and hulking up?

Re: Big problems for leeds : Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:50 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So much nonsense spoken about structure from folk who either haven't played or coached. Of course Leeds practice defensive and attacking structures and these are applied, or not, on the field by the players. When the team make mistakes and suffer periods with poor form it never occurs to some that these are player errors. It is all part of sport.

So do you think everything is ok with leeds defence and attacking protocols?

Re: Big problems for leeds : Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:29 pm  

FlexWheeler wrote:

So do you think everything is ok with leeds defence and attacking protocols?

The defensive protocols are fine. It's individual players not following them that's the problem. Now that usually comes from fatigue which usually comes from quick opposition play the balls. If we control the ruck better I have no doubt our defence will be rock solid again.

The attacking protocols, well I think they're fine too. I don't buy this stuff about attacking structure. We're Leeds. We've never had a rigid attacking structure. A rigid attacking structure is there for teams who don't have the skill and flair to play flashy rugby.
I find teams based around attacking structures incredibly boring to watch. Teams like Huddersfield & Wigan. I'd far rather watch Leeds, Cas or Saints any day of the week.

I thought in the Cas game we looked a lot more confident with the ball and we were passing it along the line a lot more than in recent games. Our timing of runs was a little bit off and our centres and wingers still don't quite seem to know what each other is going to do.
That would be my area to work on rather than going down the attacking structures route, which in SL appears to simply be throw as many dummy runners/blockers as possible into the defensive line and hope you don't get pinged for obstruction. (And then whine like a tart when you do.)

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:40 am  

The attacking play where we repeatedly throw the second man pass along the line appears to be the only structured play we have.

One of the problems on the left is Moon who seems incapable of running in a straight line - he often cramps his winger for space due to his diagonal running.

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:18 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

One of the problems on the left is Moon who seems incapable of running in a straight line - he often cramps his winger for space due to his diagonal running.

Yet he is our form centre and tops our try assists and this season already has a higher number that anyone last year

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:22 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

So do you think everything is ok with leeds defence and attacking protocols?

Leeds have shown this season they can defend well and attack well so nothing wromg with your protocols. When players lose form and their timing if just a bit off the things that looked good one week can look poo the next. Accept that it is the players that recently have not performed and not the coaches.

Class players will regain form given time and patience. They know more than anyone when things are not right.

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:30 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Leeds have shown this season they can defend well and attack well so nothing wromg with your protocols. When players lose form and their timing if just a bit off the things that looked good one week can look poo the next. Accept that it is the players that recently have not performed and not the coaches.

Class players will regain form given time and patience. They know more than anyone when things are not right.

That comment is far too sensible for this thread , have a word with yourself .

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:40 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Yet he is our form centre and tops our try assists and this season already has a higher number that anyone last year

The fact still remains his running style cramps his winger for space - Thursday night highlighted this

Re: Big problems for leeds : Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:53 pm  

Him wrote:

The attacking protocols, well I think they're fine too. I don't buy this stuff about attacking structure. We're Leeds. We've never had a rigid attacking structure. A rigid attacking structure is there for teams who don't have the skill and flair to play flashy rugby.
I find teams based around attacking structures incredibly boring to watch. Teams like Huddersfield & Wigan. I'd far rather watch Leeds, Cas or Saints any day of the week.

What about effective rugby?

Wigan have scored more points, and have a greater points difference. They are the champions.

Effective. Results.

It's funny to me you mention flair and flashy play. Running around aimlessly along the line, throwing hail marys out wide, i don't consider that good to watch. Wigan create space and overlaps out wide with structure in the middle so their wide players get space to run and score good tries. That is good to watch. Imagine how good leeds could be to watch with hall, briscoe, watkins and moon being put into similiar situations.

It's also again funny you mention flair and flashy play. 3 of leeds 4 tries were from kicks the other night.

Awesome.