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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:08 pm  
I agree with the poster who suggesting that we make players play the ball again. it's ridiculous now and it may as well be scrapped from the rules.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:53 pm  
GIANT DAZ wrote:
I agree with the poster who suggesting that we make players play the ball again. it's ridiculous now and it may as well be scrapped from the rules.

Yep. I don't mind us being lax on the play the ball if we want a fast play the ball. But if, as suggested, the play the ball is too fast, then there are ways of slowing it down without massively changing the rules and how the game is played.

Forcing players to properly regain their feet, face front and actually play the ball with their foot would not only slow the speed of the play the ball but also would slow the defensive line. Because they would have to abide by the rule of not moving up until the ball is touched with the foot. Whereas now they're allowed to move as soon as the play the ball starts because half the players don't touch the ball with their foot.

Also I'd drastically slow the play the ball when the attacker is held. Currently they often get a very quick play the ball following a held call. If we slow that and basically the ref waits until the markers are set and then allows the play the ball, then there is an incentive for tacklers to hold someone up rather than try to lift their leg to get them down.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:55 am  
To what end are we wanting to slow down the PTB? The easier we make it for the defence, the less skill will be on show from the attack. Quick PTBs give the attack the split second/half a yard advantage they need to exploit the defensive line, and without this we'd be much more likely to see 5 drives and a kick.

Just watch what happens when a team has a good defensive set - they're opposition make about 10 metres forward before being forced to kick. That's great when it's a reward for a near perfect defensive set, not so much when the rules make it possible for the entire game.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:32 pm  
I want teams, here I go again criticising European ones, not to scoot from acting-halfback, and the fact is Saints are more guilty of it than anyone, it's ridiculous the amount of metres J Roby makes, we don't see Nr 9's topping the metre maker charts in the NRL, even with quick play-the-balls in the NRL they feel a duty to put on passing plays, whereas up here, we don't see it, maybe the coaches aren't confident enough in their players to give them license to do that, well they're wrong. The law changes I've suggested in the past is ALL to do with trying to help European RL, and to help the international side get closer to the 'Roos, but without making it no space rugby, like RU is, did you see the Toulon v Munster match yesterday? Oh flip, I didn't see much rugby being played, granted I didn't see it all, because I didn't want to.

Yes, less than a 10m gap is a bit skinny for full-time teams, and I love seeing some big collisions between the big guys, but what can we do up here, as Greg Bird said when he moved back to Aus, "SL and the NRL are like different sports"; and he's unfortunately right.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:28 pm  
OzWelsh wrote:
I want teams, here I go again criticising European ones, not to scoot from acting-halfback, and the fact is Saints are more guilty of it than anyone, it's ridiculous the amount of metres J Roby makes, we don't see Nr 9's topping the metre maker charts in the NRL, even with quick play-the-balls in the NRL they feel a duty to put on passing plays, whereas up here, we don't see it, maybe the coaches aren't confident enough in their players to give them license to do that, well they're wrong. The law changes I've suggested in the past is ALL to do with trying to help European RL, and to help the international side get closer to the 'Roos, but without making it no space rugby, like RU is, did you see the Toulon v Munster match yesterday? Oh flip, I didn't see much rugby being played, granted I didn't see it all, because I didn't want to.

Yes, less than a 10m gap is a bit skinny for full-time teams, and I love seeing some big collisions between the big guys, but what can we do up here, as Greg Bird said when he moved back to Aus, "SL and the NRL are like different sports"; and he's unfortunately right.

So which is it? Player safety or you not liking dummy half runs?

James Roby is currently 14th in the top metre makers in SL. There are only 3 hookers in the top 50 metre makers in SL:

James Roby - 14th - 1139
Rob Burrow - 20th - 1111
Josh Hodgson - 22nd - 1080

The NRL do not put on passing plays. It's based on hit ups, systems and completions. SL teams are far more willing to pass the ball around than NRL teams.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:18 am  
It goes without saying that player safety is very important, the most important, but also to have the same laws applied in the NRL as in SL, and ones to help Europe. I don't want to see too much pressure applied to the acting-halfback as I want him/her to be able to pass without an arm coming around from the marker to stop a lot of passing plays or to stop the Nr 9 from starting a passing play by taking a few steps to the side of the ruck. It's obviously a balancing act that we've been trying to achieve for the past 100+yrs. The rules should be different for the amateur and even the semi-pro game.

Regarding number nines' metres run, the stats show that the ones up here make more metres as a percentage of their teams territory gained than the ones in the SH, Cam Smith, M Ennis and Jake Friend have all run less that 500 metres, only played 2 less league matches. But I don't want to come across as it I'm criticising SL anymore. Just that I don't want the two leagues to look differently, but I've been going on about that for yrs, and I've had enough of going on about the differences, so I'll stop going on about it. According to Matt Parrish yesterday off-loads are up in the NRL, and as he said trends alter in RL as we all know, but I can't find that article on the NRL web site at the moment, seems to have bn taken down.

Remember the C Bulldogs of 2 yrs ago with the passing forwards in the middle of the park, I thought every team would try and copy it, but defences seem to have worked out how to stop that, though it still happens on occasions.
Last edited by OzWelsh on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:36 am  
OzWelsh wrote:
I want teams, here I go again criticising European ones, not to scoot from acting-halfback, and the fact is Saints are more guilty of it than anyone, it's ridiculous the amount of metres J Roby makes, we don't see Nr 9's topping the metre maker charts in the NRL, even with quick play-the-balls in the NRL they feel a duty to put on passing plays, whereas up here, we don't see it, maybe the coaches aren't confident enough in their players to give them license to do that, well they're wrong. The law changes I've suggested in the past is ALL to do with trying to help European RL, and to help the international side get closer to the 'Roos, but without making it no space rugby, like RU is, did you see the Toulon v Munster match yesterday? Oh flip, I didn't see much rugby being played, granted I didn't see it all, because I didn't want to.

Yes, less than a 10m gap is a bit skinny for full-time teams, and I love seeing some big collisions between the big guys, but what can we do up here, as Greg Bird said when he moved back to Aus, "SL and the NRL are like different sports"; and he's unfortunately right.

I don't see what the problem is. What exactly is wrong with the scoot? If Roby or Burrow spot a chink in the defensive line and exploit it, why is that something we must try to eradicate from the game?
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:13 am  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
To what end are we wanting to slow down the PTB? The easier we make it for the defence, the less skill will be on show from the attack. Quick PTBs give the attack the split second/half a yard advantage they need to exploit the defensive line, and without this we'd be much more likely to see 5 drives and a kick.

Just watch what happens when a team has a good defensive set - they're opposition make about 10 metres forward before being forced to kick. That's great when it's a reward for a near perfect defensive set, not so much when the rules make it possible for the entire game.


so you want to reward crap attacks and punish good defending? Its a much better game when there is two good defences. Also the whole scooting thing has become a joke hardly any hookers can deliver good service these days with out picking it up and running 3-5 meters. what is the average scooting rate in a set? it must be at least 2 or 3? Stop letting players move off the mark and actually punish it rather than shout "shortening the ten". make them play the ball with there foot and on their feet as some one else said. The only way you should be allowed a quicker play of the ball is if you have won the ruck and then you should be rewarded, not just surround and wriggle as much as you can so the ref blows a penalty.

Under no circumstance should we close the defensive line, you would then take out any physicality and stamina required to play rugby league. You would Reward fat forwards basically.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:16 am  
the scooting issue, and the speed of the ptb issue are different but linked.

I agree that teams shouldnt be given easy metres by allowing them to just run 10 metres every ptb,

I also dont think that we should reward poor defending and slow defensive speed by allowing laying on and messing about at the PTB as we do now

a simple solution for this would be to speed up the PTB to where it should be, but allow markers to stand side by side at the ptb and remove the necesity for them to be square ( i would also introduce a regulation that the markers cannot tackle the dummy half behind the PTB to stop them getting involved in the distribution from the ptb). I think that would give us a good middle ground and an even competition between attack and defence.
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Re: Reduce defensive gap to 7 metres : Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:13 pm  
OzWelsh wrote:
It goes without saying that player safety is very important, the most important, but also to have the same laws applied in the NRL as in SL, and ones to help Europe. I don't want to see too much pressure applied to the acting-halfback as I want him/her to be able to pass without an arm coming around from the marker to stop a lot of passing plays or to stop the Nr 9 from starting a passing play by taking a few steps to the side of the ruck. It's obviously a balancing act that we've been trying to achieve for the past 100+yrs. The rules should be different for the amateur and even the semi-pro game.

Regarding number nines' metres run, the stats show that the ones up here make more metres as a percentage of their teams territory gained than the ones in the SH, Cam Smith, M Ennis and Jake Friend have all run less that 500 metres, only played 2 less league matches. But I don't want to come across as it I'm criticising SL anymore. Just that I don't want the two leagues to look differently, but I've been going on about that for yrs, and I've had enough of going on about the differences, so I'll stop going on about it. According to Matt Parrish yesterday off-loads are up in the NRL, and as he said trends alter in RL as we all know, but I can't find that article on the NRL web site at the moment, seems to have bn taken down.

Remember the C Bulldogs of 2 yrs ago with the passing forwards in the middle of the park, I thought every team would try and copy it, but defences seem to have worked out how to stop that, though it still happens on occasions.


Just waiting for you to suggest getting rid of the tackle count and changing the points for a try and conversion ala 30+ years ago. The game has changed a lot already. Some rules need to be enforced correctly but lets go a least another few years before changing the rules AGAIN!
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