Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:15 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I was away so I did not see the match. If those half back stats are correct they are extremely worrying going into the saints game.
Also as we go further into the season.

I disagree. As long as those meters and breaks are coming from other people I would suggest the half backs are doing their job of putting people into the right holes

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:19 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Leeds fans have been temporarily conditioned to accept structure, organisation and excessive monotone

So, a bit like your beloved NRL then.

William Eve wrote:

over individual flair, skill and personality.

I must've imagined what Danny Mcguire & Rob Burrow have done to teams over the last 10 years.

William Eve wrote:

Wembley success OTOH requires more of the latter in order to be successful, hence the drought.

We totally agree

regards,
Wigan Warriors, winners of the most boring Challenge Cup final of all time.

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Leeds fans have been temporarily conditioned to accept structure, organisation and excessive monotone over individual flair, skill and personality because it's the former which has been primarily responsible for securing sundry SL titles. Wembley success OTOH requires more of the latter in order to be successful, hence the drought.

I daresay when the prospect of SL silverware dries up, Leeds fans will once again be crying out for flair, personality and skill on the pitch in abundance. Until then, the fans will swallow anything.

Not sure about that myself, our "lack of flair" has got us to plenty of CC finals that we have lost

The SL titles still involved winning a final

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:56 pm  

The key period in the evolution of the Leeds Rhinos team and the way they play the game was at the business end of the 2004 season. The whole of the regular season that year is often cited as the most progressively entertaining in terms of flair, skill and individual personality making it's mark. Even I was charmed by it all to such an extent that I traipsed all the way down to Brentford for the away game against London!

However, for all the individual brilliance of McGuire, Burrow, Lauiti'iti et al on show that regular season, none of it was ever going to bring home the bacon when it really mattered. Most people cite the 2004 Grand Final as the key evolutionary game. It really wasn't. The key evolutionary game was played 2 weeks earlier when the flair, skill and personality which had trounced everyone was given a severe good hiding when it really mattered. Valuable lesson duly learned at the most opportune time. Sinfield confirmed as the dear leader.

The backbone of the Leeds squad have been winning SL titles on the back of organisation, structure and excessive monotone drills ever since. Their successful era will not be written as entertaining by any stretch of anyone's imagination. Fans will accept it all as long as it continues to deliver SL titles, but only until then. In the absence of silverware, only flair, skill and personality is an adequate substitute.

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:59 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Seriously Gareth. Of all the things said, and I don't disagree with many of it, that comment is the silliest mate.

Why?

Do you think that when a team like Salford, currently 11th in the table, are away at the current league leaders, that they can afford their half back to turn over so much possession?

Did you watch what led to Hardaker's break for BJBs try, a try crucial in breaking the back of Salfrod who were very much in it at that point? In an excellent attacking position Chase put in a nothing kick for himself that put Leeds under no pressure, gave hardly any chase, waved an arm at Hardaker who sent up BJB.

This is where games are really won and lost, not with fancy behind the back passes.

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:15 pm  

G1 wrote:

Why?

Do you think that when a team like Salford, currently 11th in the table, are away at the current league leaders, that they can afford their half back to turn over so much possession?

Did you watch what led to Hardaker's break for BJBs try, a try crucial in breaking the back of Salfrod who were very much in it at that point? In an excellent attacking position Chase put in a nothing kick for himself that put Leeds under no pressure, gave hardly any chase, waved an arm at Hardaker who sent up BJB.

This is where games are really won and lost, not with fancy behind the back passes.

The fact that you seem unable to get beyond this particular individual rather than a player, to view a game fully and have concentrated only on a couple of points is probably the reason for the why.

However, when looked at properly, Salford made 1400 metres in that game, Chase made 241 of them, 17%. Nobody came close to him on the Salford side. Where do you think they would have being playing their rugby on the field without that contribution? Salford made 7 clean breaks, Chase made 3 of them, again contributing to that field position that put them in with a chance for 50 minutes of that game. To contribute this he also made 14 tackle busts with 4 offloads, again the contributory factor to Salfords field position. Nobody on the Rhinos side managed to match him on the clean breaks and busts.

That would suggest that the true position is that Leeds have the players to make up the difference across the park, hence why we were successful. However, Salford don't have those others, and they would not have got as close as they did without that players contribution.

Like I said, love him or hate him, it doesn't really matter, but he was a class above on Monday.

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:34 pm  

Rangi Chase type players wouldn't currently work effectively at Leeds. Their resistance towards being assimilated into the Sinfield Collective would be futile as the best case scenario thereafter would be a rapid exit from the club. Chase's futile resistance to the Sinfield Collective at international level was clear for all to see during the RLWC.

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:46 pm  

The Stat that matters is Leeds 32-4 Salford including the "genius" Chase!

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:13 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I was away so I did not see the match. If those half back stats are correct they are extremely worrying going into the saints game.
Also as we go further into the season.

William Eve wrote:

Wembley success OTOH requires more individual flair, skill and personality

Sinfield/McGuire - Smith/Green 2013

Games - 45 - 50
Metres - 3,107 - 2,615
Tackle Busts - 53 - 62
Clean Breaks - 15 - 18
Offloads - 47 - 21

Re: Rangi Chase Red Devils : Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:25 am  

G1 wrote:

You always covet what others have TVOC without truly appreciating what's in front of you.

I appreciate what's in front of me in both teams. Others also have talented players who I could imagine enjoying playing in a Leeds shirt. Iestyn Harris was one such player but you could include some notable other British born SL recruits such as Keith Senior, Gareth Ellis, Jamie Peacock, Tom Briscoe and all either did or will contine to make valuable contributions.

Others that I have coveted didn't arrive such as Michael Shenton and Ryan Atkins but I don't doubt they could have also been valuable additions to the Leeds squad at that time.

G1 wrote:

I too enjoyed every minute of watching Iestyn Harris' individual brilliance in a Leeds shirt.

Fortunate then that we were allowed the opportunity to do so. Harris was a gifted individual but he was also a great team player. You can be both they aren't mutually exclusive. Chase (according to Opta) has topped the try assist chart in three of the last four seasons and was also top four in the year he missed out.

G1 wrote:

Not one of those minutes of brilliance compared to watching Danny McGuire score in the 2004 Grand Final or Burrow's displays in the 2007 and 2009 Grand Finals.

For me neither although Harris was a major influence in Leeds' run to and winning the 1999 Challenge Cup and I enjoyed that also having endured a twenty-one year wait in that comp. Harris himself was then a factor in denying McGuire and Burrow winning another SL title in 2005 but with the benefit of hindsight I'm glad Leeds went with the newer, quicker model then - if not now.