Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:32 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Watkins has always been a poor reader of play and makes numerous wrong decisions on defence especially when defending 2/3 men in. McDermott I believe recognised this issue and sought to help him improve by moving him in to fourth man.

If Watkins were to ever fancy a go in the NRL he would IMO need to show a quantum improvement in his defensive reads to not be mercilessly exposed on a weekly basis.

IIRC he defended either one or two in against Australia in Cardiff, opposite Greg Inglis. Had GI in his pocket for pretty much the full 80 minutes.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:17 pm  

Hardaker over Bjb at FB for me every time I've seen Hardaker make plenty of one on one Try saving tackles since he moved there some of which when the odds were in favour of the attacker.
I rate Bjb but for me he is still very much 2nd choice FB and 3rd choice W or Centre.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:24 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

IIRC he defended either one or two in against Australia in Cardiff, opposite Greg Inglis. Had GI in his pocket for pretty much the full 80 minutes.

That would probably have been one in off the wing as I seem to recall it was refreshing to see an English coach not feeling the need to hide his half-backs - something you don't really need to do with quality players.

Inglis must have got out of Watkin's pocket long enough to set up Australia's opening score for Thurston and they came back that way again for their second for Bird (although that was Sinfield's miss IIRC) and again for their last score as Inglis' run had drawn Watkins in as the ball went out the back.

Those were well executed plays and not as a result of the all too typically seen Watkins obviously coming in as the defence is drifting out or charge out of the line leaving huge space in behind which has been a familiar trademark of his at Leeds.

As I said McDermott moving him further infield I think has given him less decisions to make and I stand by my comment re-Watkins that if he went over to the NRL he would be targetted mercilessly.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:32 pm  

tvoc wrote:

That would probably have been one in off the wing as I seem to recall it was refreshing to see an English coach not feeling the need to hide his half-backs - something you don't really need to do with quality players.

Inglis must have got out of Watkin's pocket long enough to set up Australia's opening score for Thurston and they came back that way again for their second for Bird (although that was Sinfield's miss IIRC) and again for their last score as Inglis' run had drawn Watkins in as the ball went out the back.

Those were well executed plays and not as a result of the all too typically seen Watkins obviously coming in as the defence is drifting out or charge out of the line leaving huge space in behind which has been a familiar trademark of his at Leeds.

As I said McDermott moving him further infield I think has given him less decisions to make and I stand by my comment re-Watkins that if he went over to the NRL he would be targetted mercilessly.

I agree with Andy entirely. Watkins held Inglis in check (the try was nothing to do with Watkis defensive skills, more Tomkins lack of height).

I thought Watkins edged the battle with Inglis that day. Even if he didn't and he only came close that is enough to question the validity of your opinion on Watkins defensive capabilities. based upon his one direct showing with arguably the best in the world I'd imagine Watkins would welcome and pass any merciless test that may come his way.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:59 pm  

It's a not unreasonable claim that limiting GI to just 3 critical assists resulting in 3 Australian tries is tantamount to keeping him in check.

The claim that Watkins had GI in his pocket is a laughable one however.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:02 pm  

G1 wrote:

I agree with Andy entirely. Watkins held Inglis in check (the try was nothing to do with Watkis defensive skills, more Tomkins lack of height).

I thought Watkins edged the battle with Inglis that day. Even if he didn't and he only came close that is enough to question the validity of your opinion on Watkins defensive capabilities. based upon his one direct showing with arguably the best in the world I'd imagine Watkins would welcome and pass any merciless test that may come his way.

Who was it who kept Jamie Lyon completely in check in the 2012 WCC? Can't remember if it was Watkins or another of Juan's "defensively suspect" backs Zak Hardaker.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:52 pm  

G1 wrote:

I thought Watkins edged the battle with Inglis that day.

The discussion was focused on defence - my opinion on Watkins defensive skills were not made on the basis of any one game in isolation.

craigizzard wrote:

Who was it who kept Jamie Lyon completely in check in the 2012 WCC? Can't remember if it was Watkins or another of Juan's "defensively suspect" backs Zak Hardaker.

Leeds' defensive 'left centre' opposite Lyon in that game was probably McGuire rather than either starting centres. Watkins was offensively opposite Matai - defensively opposite whoever was playing left second-row.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:24 am  

tvoc wrote:

The discussion was focused on defence .

The discussion goes where the discussion goes, whether you like it or not. I was agreeing with Andy.

I don't share your view about Watkins defence. Not sure what the relevance of what NRL opponents may or may not do if he theoretically played in that competition but as you introduced this hypothetical into the discussion it was valid of Andy to reference the time he faced off against probably the best the NRL has to offer in that position.

In that game, and Leeds WCC games (again real life opposition from the NRL) I've seen no evidence to suggest any Australasian opponents mercilessly targetted Watkins or that he struggled in any way.

So, we have the actual real life examples of NRL teams facing Kallum Watkins and you opinion of what NRL teams might do when facing Watkins.

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:55 pm  

Seeing as someone mentioned Manly and we are talking defending Watkins went through "Shoulders" Matai like he was an 8yr old girl for his try at HQ yet not much defensive frailty was seen coming the other way!

Re: Leeds go Top after a Third of the Season : Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:07 pm  

Watkins defence in the NRL would be analagous in many respects to what is currently being demonstrated on a weekly basis by Sam Tomkins.

Citing highly selective examples from pre-season WCC warm-up fixtures is right up there in the desperation stakes as judging the quality of a player by the number of SL rings in his possession.


Regards,
Ian Kirke.