Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:45 pm  

BB-I'd be more concerned about how many training sessions Bailey misses than tackles!!

JC-Basically then Burrow has no faults playing at 9 because we've made plenty of metres and the backs are getting more ball?
Numbers don't show his lack of accuracy passing from DH nor actually how quick or early both Sinfield and McGuire have gone wide when we have possession.
Burrow is a quality RL player imo and a definite Leeds Legend and Hall of Fame inductee but lets not use numbers on spread sheets to dismiss his obvious flaws when playing at 9 numbers don't highlight how slow he can be to get the ball away ,hospital passes or passing the ball to the receivers boot laces.
Now again I reiterate I rate him highly and he would make the 17 99/100 but he isn't perfect at 9 and also when he defends out wide with McGuire its a weak spot in our line imo.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:01 pm  

thebloodbath wrote:

I'm not sure being top tacklers is a badge of honour to wear?

I'm not missing the point, it just depends on what you want from your hooker. That's subjective. Look at the better hookers in the comp - 3 stand out for me: Roby, Lunt and Houghton. We all know what they contribute and direct around the field but can also do alot of work in defence.

The point I make about our tackling stats both last year and this season so far is that we have overcome the alleged weakness of Burrow not doing the normal tackling stint. So we do not need Burrow to dop a lot of work in defense. Therefore this is not as important a point as some make out.

Roby is an outstanding players and like Burrow could be effective in other positions too. But neither of the other two you mention has the all round rugby skill set that Burrow offers [/quote]

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:15 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

The point I make about our tackling stats both last year and this season so far is that we have overcome the alleged weakness of Burrow not doing the normal tackling stint. So we do not need Burrow to dop a lot of work in defense. Therefore this is not as important a point as some make out.

It is because it means someone else is having to make up the numbers in tackles and wear themselves down even more, and what could these other players do more in attack if they weren't being overworked in defence?

Opposition often target the halves when attacking to wear them down (think Ablett going at Briers 2012 GF) and tire them out when it comes to their turn to attack. We end up having our starting stand-off making around 30 tackles a game which is around/over twice as many as other halves in the competition and IMO wrong to do so.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:20 pm  

rhinoms wrote:

JC-Basically then Burrow has no faults playing at 9 because we've made plenty of metres and the backs are getting more ball?.

I didn't say Burrow has no faults playing at 9. I said his many overall skills overcome any disadvantage in his floor pass, which is not as bad as many state.

rhinoms wrote:

Numbers don't show his lack of accuracy passing from DH nor actually how quick or early both Sinfield and McGuire have gone wide when we have possession..

But numbers show we are in 2nd position and making the most metres and our backs are scoring tries. This would not happen if Burrow was as bad as you make out.

rhinoms wrote:

Burrow is a quality RL player imo and a definite Leeds Legend and Hall of Fame inductee but lets not use numbers on spread sheets to dismiss his obvious flaws when playing at 9 numbers don't highlight how slow he can be to get the ball away ,hospital passes or passing the ball to the receivers boot laces..

I repeat his obvious flaws are not as bad as you make out (England pick him at 9) and the other skills he brings to the party more than outweigh any negatives.

rhinoms wrote:

Now again I reiterate I rate him highly and he would make the 17 99/100 but he isn't perfect at 9 and also when he defends out wide with McGuire its a weak spot in our line imo.

He should make the 13 at 7 (best) and if not at 9. Burrows defence is not a weak spot his tackles are often one on one and Aiton has missed the same number. We have the best defence in SL. So as I say Leeds have worked out how to play a scrum half at hooker.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:43 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

It is because it means someone else is having to make up the numbers in tackles and wear themselves down even more, and what could these other players do more in attack if they weren't being overworked in defence?.

But we pick certain players whose main ability is defence, we often play a mobile prop at 13 - so they are not being overworked. Without the burden of having to tackle around the ruck Burrow has the freedom to run play like a 7 when at 9. Sinfield is not a running 6 and therefore has energy to make extra tackles. Despite the numbers on their backs in general play Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow still play as a 13, 6 & 7 with Burrow going into acting half at the breakdown.

ThePrinter wrote:

Opposition often target the halves when attacking to wear them down (think Ablett going at Briers 2012 GF) and tire them out when it comes to their turn to attack. We end up having our starting stand-off making around 30 tackles a game which is around/over twice as many as other halves in the competition and IMO wrong to do so.

Sinfield does not run like a 6 and is able to do some of Burrow's tackling and Burrow in turn does some of Sinfield's attacking - so it works.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:04 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

But we pick certain players whose main ability is defence, we often play a mobile prop at 13 - so they are not being overworked. Without the burden of having to tackle around the ruck Burrow has the freedom to run play like a 7 when at 9. Sinfield is not a running 6 and therefore has energy to make extra tackles. Despite the numbers on their backs in general play Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow still play as a 13, 6 & 7 with Burrow going into acting half at the breakdown.


Sinfield does not run like a 6 and is able to do some of Burrow's tackling and Burrow in turn does some of Sinfield's attacking - so it works.

It's not just a question of whether Sinfield runs a lot at 6 or not (again Briers, he wasn't much of a runner in his latter years but Wire would try keep him as fresh for attack whilst opposition would try tire him out). He is still key to attack and is heavily involved regardless of his style.....and an increased defensive workload can't help him do as well in attack as possible. From what I've seen I don't think Burrow does do any of Sinfield's attacking, simply just his own. Whereas it's clear that Burrow's workload is reduced in defence I don't see Sinfield have a reduced role in attack to compensate (nor should we). Sinfield is basically performing 1 & a half roles.....the attack and defence of his own position, and the defence of Burrow's position when at nine.

You say it works, but only just and not convincing enough at times. For three who've been together so long (Sinfield, Burrow & McGuire) they have looked like new teammates unsure about what the other is doing at times. What I've seen work is Aiton adding balance to the team and it look better on the WHOLE even if the individual isn't as talented/exciting attacking as Burrow, he can bring out more in those around him. The same with Lunt and Buderus.

As for the prop at 13, it's a tactic used throughout RL nowadays and would be there regardless of Burrow at hooker or not, and even before when you had a more traditional Loose they could defend just as well so it isn't a big difference defensively. More so it's attack wise for carrying the ball in......but with the distribution at dummy half not as crisp it takes an edge of that tactic.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:02 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

As usual you miss the main point in your pursuit of trivia.

The same statement was made by two posters - you said they were wrong.

While you may now consider it to be trivia to examine whose statement is supported by the facts (at least those according to Opta) others may be interested to examine the numbers behind the statements.

So why not answer the questions already asked, namely:

1) All games or just the regular rounds ?

2) Which players belong to which sub-set ? (Forward and Backs)

3) How have you treated the players who have started in both the forwards and the backs this season ?

4) How have you allocated the totals from the players who started on the bench ?

_________

If you are confident enough to tell someone 'they are wrong' why not allow the conclusion you've drawn to be tested?

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:45 pm  

Burrow....has the pace of a back and the tackling ability up the middle channel of....ahem! a back. His passing off the ground from dummy half lacks precision of a hooker and bears comparison to a player from the backs not used to this skill.

let's start him in the forwards !!!!

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:37 pm  

Good to hear Jamie Peacock mention Paul, he has almost become a forgotten man along with JJB. Hopefully he will have time to play himself into form before the semi final.

Re: Aiton out for 12 weeks : Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:10 pm  

Dwayne Dibley wrote:

Good to hear Jamie Peacock mention Paul, he has almost become a forgotten man along with JJB. Hopefully he will have time to play himself into form before the semi final.

they'll both be back and playing in that semi final without a doubt,both have been missed massively lately along with rob burrow