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I think there's an element of "If Greece/Denmark can do it so can England" about but I havent spoken to anyone who thinks that England are anything more than an average team playing with a bit of spirit.

I think England should rest Welbeck and Young against Italy. Carroll will give Italy nightmares at the back with no Chielinni

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Its simple, they aren't Spain....We had all got ourselves prepared for being runners-up in our group and having to face the 'unbeatable' Spain, not expecting the French to muck up versus the Swedes, so to suddenly be up against a seemingly inferior (to Spain) side like Italy, has given everybody a realisation that this hotch-potch of a team, that Hodgson has squeezed 3 decent results from, might suddenly be just 1 game from a major final.

I don't think Italy are being dismissed by anybody, but I think its more that the arrogant, nauseating bullishness, that the English media is famous for, has reappeared and now a side that originally had no pressure on it, will now have the huge weight of expectation plonked right on its shoulders by all and sundry.

Personally, I'm happy enough with the results - Hodgson has obviously realised we are pretty dire, and has adjusted accordingly - but its apparent that a decent side should be able to pick them apart. Our passing is rotten, our ball retainment is no better. Only the spirit of the players gives England fans any hope, but you have to feel that a Germany, Spain, or even an Italy, should have enough about them to see off England.

This.

Everyone was prepared to face the 'unbeatable' spain and most likely go out in the quarters. But now, all of a sudden they are playing a 'beatable' team and people are thinking ''hey, wait a second, we have a decent chance of getting to the semi's here''.

It's not that people are dismissing italy, it's just rightly or wrongly they feel we have a better chance against the azzuri than the spaniards.

England have been ugly. Real ugly. It's not pretty to watch.

But consider this: Holland have played better football than us. They've attacked more, created more chances, they arguable have better flair players going forward. They are going home now with nil points. England go through to the quarters top of the gruop.

Results > performances.

Amen to that. And Blatter. Get some of that from last night up you. Where were you this time 2 years ago. You anti English delusional old imbecile.

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

Results > performances.

You are absolutely right, nobody has ever denied that. But when debating a match and the performance of a team, do you just accept that everything is brilliant when the performances aren't? We may as well not debate football anymore if it's just results that matter.

Matt23 wrote:

Amen to that. And Blatter. Get some of that from last night up you. Where were you this time 2 years ago. You anti English delusional old imbecile.

Correct. He should be concentrating on the fact that his linesman (presumably one of the top two in his respective Country) missed the fact that the guy was offside.

It says on SSN that the missing Ireland fan has been found dead in a canal according to the Polish authorities. Lets hope there was no foul play involved.

RIP.

[John_D]

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

England have been ugly. Real ugly. It's not pretty to watch.

But consider this: Holland have played better football than us. They've attacked more, created more chances, they arguable have better flair players going forward. They are going home now with nil points. England go through to the quarters top of the gruop.

Results > performances.

The Dutch press and public are not happy with van Marwijk's ugly - as they see it - approach. Two years ago there was a feeling of 'yes, it's not the Dutch way, but we're wininng games and made a World Cup final', but as soon as it stops working, the opprobrium becomes overwhelming. I fully expect van Marwijk to quit shortly (quit, not sacked, as he's contracted to 2016 and I doubt the KNVB are keen for that sort of payout).

Yes, results are more important than performance, but if the performance is good you get away with poor results for longer. You don't get that same leeway in defeat while playing ugly. You use up your credit in terms of style that you can't then call upon when things aren't going for you.

Darkheart wrote:

I think England should rest Welbeck and Young against Italy. Carroll will give Italy nightmares at the back with no Chielinni

Rest Welbeck?

Did he put in enough effort on Tuesday to require a rest?

Guerrier wrote:

Rest Welbeck?

Did he put in enough effort on Tuesday to require a rest?

Always put's a good shift in. I think Carrol offers something different, a strong physical centre forward will give them more to worry about.