WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - The BIG vote.
Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:03 pm
Posted by sally cinnamon on Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:03 pm
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Wires71 wrote:
Another change. The RFL is a laughing stock.

So the format was changed to Super 8s in 2015 to address a problem. Has that problem gone away now?


Remember back in 2014 … RFL chief executive Nigel Wood believes that the changes herald a new era for the sport.“The changes will ensure that every minute of every match in every competition matters and are being implemented following the most comprehensive consultation process in the sport’s history,” he said.
“The return of promotion and relegation in a format that is financially sustainable for all clubs should ensure fans are entertained from February to October, with an exciting season punctuated by a series of world-class events commencing with the World Club Challenge and finishing at Old Trafford with the Super League Grand Final.”

Fully expect another change in 3 years or so. The problem isnt the structure it's low intensity games, boring games played at silly times.


LOL yeah we all knew at the time that the proposals were daft and would get chucked out after a few years.

There are always going to be trade-offs in any system. A lot of fans I expect would love the return to a simple league season but that would lose the end of season playoff games and associated revenue and also for all but the top 2 or 3 that would make most games relatively meaningless. In football it works because they have a tiered system of reward: winning the league, qualifying for the Champions League, qualifying for the Europa League and once you get below that it's not too far off the relegation battle. We don't have the same financial incentives here especially at the bottom as it's hard to get relegated and there aren't enough teams to support a 3 up/3 down system, you would just get the same clubs yo-yoing up and down.

The playoffs and Grand Final do bring in revenue and excitement to the game and realistically no matter the moral purity of the arguments for rewarding the best team over the league season with the title, it is not a reform that the administrators are going to make, because they would lose too much other stuff.

So that leaves us with a playoff system. The Aussies have used a top 8 for a while, in recent years they've moved away from the old McIntyre system to one similar to ours from a few years back, but without the daft Club Call stuff. The top 8 does keep the season alive but it puts too much emphasis on injuries/form at the end of the season and means the early to mid season feels like going through the motions. Remember in the peak TS era when we had a great team who played fantastic rugby, it still felt a bit empty watching Wire sometimes because most games we were going to win quite easily but it was just about waiting for the playoffs as that would determine our fate. Meanwhile Leeds were generally in turmoil with all their fans calling for Brian McDermott's head but they also knew that come the end of the season they would have a good chance of winning.

You need a playoff system to be pretty hard to win from 5th or 6th, ie you need a run of hard games winning away from home. The problem with the top 8 was Leeds from 5th always had a nice easy home opener to the playoffs, 5th v 8th, to build some momentum then the next week they played one of the clubs above who was coming off a loss and would view playing Leeds in an elimination game with dread, before the semi finals.

The first two playoff systems that we had, top 5 from 1998 to 2001 and top 6 from 2002 to 2008, were decent systems. Not easy to win there from 5th or 6th but at least you have the prize of getting to a playoff and having a shot. We did in 2006, when we came 6th and went to Headingley to beat Leeds with a drop-goal, which meant we progressed, but to progress to the Grand Final we'd have had to beat Bradford and Hull away.

The original top 5 system was the best for giving incremental rewards to each team who finished higher.
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:55 pm
Posted by Wires71 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:55 pm
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CW8 wrote:
I agree they could do the cup quarter finals as magic weekend. May get a different crowd with a big day out for some championship sides etc. I hadn't really considered the competition money, it's not the end of the world and the extra teams are likely to be toulouse, Toronto and perhaps London, it's an expansionists dream. I don't think those teams would detract from the competition (so long as it's not a Paul Rowley Toronto side).


It's the TV money that would have to be watered down to fund 3 additional SL clubs. Although I am in favour as we will have a normal league where we play everyone twice. If the watering down was applied to the salary cap it would be (£1.8M/15)*12 = £1.44M). Maybe average players like Matty Russell won't earn £90K per annum anymore.

I'm all for the Magic concept to be the CC quarter finals, but Sky would not have it as they don't have TV rights. But no reason why we could not court the BBC with such a multi-game proposal again (like the semi-finals this year)
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:12 pm
Posted by sally cinnamon on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:12 pm
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Wires71 wrote:
It's the TV money that would have to be watered down to fund 3 additional SL clubs. Although I am in favour as we will have a normal league where we play everyone twice. If the watering down was applied to the salary cap it would be (£1.8M/15)*12 = £1.44M). Maybe average players like Matty Russell won't earn £90K per annum anymore.

I'm all for the Magic concept to be the CC quarter finals, but Sky would not have it as they don't have TV rights. But no reason why we could not court the BBC with such a multi-game proposal again (like the semi-finals this year)


Or maybe the best players will leave and the average players will be able to command the lion's share of what's left in the salary cap.
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:31 pm
Posted by MorePlaymakersNeeded on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:31 pm
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I just don't like the play off system at all, never have done. Top the league, then you're Superleague Champions no ifs buts or maybes for me.
I'd like the end of season playoff's being for a separate trophy - like the Premiership Trophy of years gone by. This had good attendances at Old Trafford if my memory serves me, and it could be played as a double header (like it used to be) with parallel Championship and League 1 competitions. But, I accept this isn't going to happen any time soon.

No matter what the season format is there will always be meaning games where two sides face each other with nothing to really play for, except pride in wearing the shirt.
Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:34 pm
Posted by MorePlaymakersNeeded on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:34 pm
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sally cinnamon wrote:
Or maybe the best players will leave and the average players will be able to command the lion's share of what's left in the salary cap.

They all left some while ago, sadly. Were left with average with the exception of a dwindling handful (if that many) of those who are better than average.
Re: The BIG vote.
Post Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:37 pm
Posted by rubber duckie on Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:37 pm
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Imo a magic fixture should not be replicated within the loop. Otherwise we are going to get another 'Wigan week #' repetition.
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:35 am
Posted by Asgardian13 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:35 am
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MorePlaymakersNeeded wrote:
I just don't like the play off system at all, never have done. Top the league, then you're Superleague Champions no ifs buts or maybes for me.
I'd like the end of season playoff's being for a separate trophy - like the Premiership Trophy of years gone by. This had good attendances at Old Trafford if my memory serves me, and it could be played as a double header (like it used to be) with parallel Championship and League 1 competitions. But, I accept this isn't going to happen any time soon.

No matter what the season format is there will always be meaning games where two sides face each other with nothing to really play for, except pride in wearing the shirt.


To repeat a point that has been raised many times on these boards, for almost all of its history RL has decided the champions by a play-off system of one kind or another. During the years pre-SL when it was the 'league leader' who became champion there was no glamour, not much money, and little recognition in becoming champion. That's why the Challenge Cup was the trophy to win during that spell, as it did bring cash, glamour and recognition: probably the only RL thing that got national newspaper coverage.
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:43 am
Posted by Wires71 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:43 am
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Asgardian13 wrote:
To repeat a point that has been raised many times on these boards, for almost all of its history RL has decided the champions by a play-off system of one kind or another. During the years pre-SL when it was the 'league leader' who became champion there was no glamour, not much money, and little recognition in becoming champion. That's why the Challenge Cup was the trophy to win during that spell, as it did bring cash, glamour and recognition: probably the only RL thing that got national newspaper coverage.


A fair point and I think most are aware. However just because there was a playoff system in the past does not mean there needs to be one in the future.
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Re: The BIG vote.
Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:32 am
Posted by MorePlaymakersNeeded on Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:32 am
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Asgardian13 wrote:
To repeat a point that has been raised many times on these boards, for almost all of its history RL has decided the champions by a play-off system of one kind or another. During the years pre-SL when it was the 'league leader' who became champion there was no glamour, not much money, and little recognition in becoming champion. That's why the Challenge Cup was the trophy to win during that spell, as it did bring cash, glamour and recognition: probably the only RL thing that got national newspaper coverage.

Yes, I am aware of the play-off system being used for most of RL's history. This was due to the one league system and the fixtures being unbalanced i.e. not playing each other home and away.
Regardless of the facts of how it was/how it now is I'm still not a fan of it. I may be one of the few who desperately wanted to see the Wire winning the league through the years, and was gutted we were pipped by HKR in the late seventies, and still spit the odd feather over Russell Smith. Maybe it's just me, and as I stated before I don't expect the play off system to decide who are champions to disappear any time soon.
Re: The BIG vote.
Post Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:49 pm
Posted by Psychedelic Casual on Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:49 pm
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Change change change change change change change... this change... in three years there’ll be another change.

The sport is losing interest to casual viewers because nobody knows what’s going on.

I’m bored of the changes but this change won’t be the last because everybody will get sick of loop fixtures with the Play-offs and CC and Magic you could play a team six times!

I hope the RFL’s move to Manchester brings some changes to the personnel there because it needs some different ideas.
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