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Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:20 pm
Posted by supercat on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:20 pm
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Jo Jumbuck wrote:
Except they have tried everywhere else in the UK jools, They can't even get it going in Rugby mad Wales, It's dying on it's feet even along the M62's much vaunted heartlands, while Union grows ever bigger. Sad to say something needs to change, and as i have already said one team over there is a nonsense, but if after 150 years we can only boast Half a dozen stable teams, who themselves are completely reliant on Sky for survival, there is not much hope long term.

The most sensible way forward would be for mergers ( as far as survival goes ) but we all know the thinking on that " I'll give up watching the game first ". (Maybe sooner than we think). Anyway lets see what S league have in mind when they take over.


Sorry Scotland and Ireland haven’t had their turn yet
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:15 am
Posted by bilko1941 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:15 am
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Jo Jumbuck wrote:
Again i see your point jools, So i take it you are in favour of ESL " the breadwinners " including the Giants coughing up more of their earnings to fund the Grass roots of the sport as well as the championship and below that.

The SL owners have reputedly voted the opposite way to that claiming that they need more money to keep the level of SL up ,so that the value of the TV deal has a chance of at least staying as high as it is now.

The argument being that without SL there is no TV deal, without the TV deal there is no Rugby league at any kind of pro level. The challenge cup has diminished in importance and value alarmingly, So the only thing making any money to talk of is SL. So what do you reckon, share the money out more ,or every man for himself, I'll be really interested to hear what people think.
In my opinion there are too many clubs who cannot generate the cash flow needed to survive without handouts from the RL.Ask yourself this without these hand outs these clubs would fold so what do we want several clubs to go to the wall or carry on throwing good money after bad? The thought of losing clubs, unpalatable as it may be, in my opinion it is the only way forward. It is only an opinion but I would expand the academy system starting at U15 level using top grade coaches up to u21 with a rule to play up to 5-6 players that could maybe be used to give players from the first teams game time.The present system does not allow clubs at season end to blood young players for fear of being relegated so,go back to no promotion or relegation.I would then expand SL to 17-18 clubs ie take the top 4-5 clubs into SL(this is the number that are capable of sustaining a place in SL) .I would then limit overseas players to 2 strictly enforced.This may stop the number of young players leaving for RU.The game of Rugby League is fraught with problems created by a management and the clubs themselves ie making rules and then overlooking them as suits, this has to stop.I realise this in part will upset some people but as I say it is only an opinion people may have other ideas and may have things too add to this or disagree with it is just how I see RL now. I emailed a similar letter to the RL quite a few years ago which was returned without them even bothering to read it ,I suppose they think that very long term supporters only watch games and do not see what is happening to the game we have loved for a huge part of their lives.There are a lot of things in the pipe line that no doubt we shall hear about when it's signed sealed and delivered I believe they do not give a damn what their spectators want!!
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:04 pm
Posted by Jo Jumbuck on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:04 pm
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bilko1941 wrote:
In my opinion there are too many clubs who cannot generate the cash flow needed to survive without handouts from the RL.Ask yourself this without these hand outs these clubs would fold so what do we want several clubs to go to the wall or carry on throwing good money after bad? The thought of losing clubs, unpalatable as it may be, in my opinion it is the only way forward. It is only an opinion but I would expand the academy system starting at U15 level using top grade coaches up to u21 with a rule to play up to 5-6 players that could maybe be used to give players from the first teams game time.The present system does not allow clubs at season end to blood young players for fear of being relegated so,go back to no promotion or relegation.I would then expand SL to 17-18 clubs ie take the top 4-5 clubs into SL(this is the number that are capable of sustaining a place in SL) .I would then limit overseas players to 2 strictly enforced.This may stop the number of young players leaving for RU.The game of Rugby League is fraught with problems created by a management and the clubs themselves ie making rules and then overlooking them as suits, this has to stop.I realise this in part will upset some people but as I say it is only an opinion people may have other ideas and may have things too add to this or disagree with it is just how I see RL now. I emailed a similar letter to the RL quite a few years ago which was returned without them even bothering to read it ,I suppose they think that very long term supporters only watch games and do not see what is happening to the game we have loved for a huge part of their lives.There are a lot of things in the pipe line that no doubt we shall hear about when it's signed sealed and delivered I believe they do not give a damn what their spectators want!!


Not much there not to agree with Bilko but it doesn't really answer my question , Yes you accept that some clubs need to go, but what you don't say about all this grass roots stuff is , Who is to pay for it ? S League clubs are saying it's not going to be them , they need every penny, The RFL are skint and i don't think they even cover their running costs.( Nobody makes any money except SL)
That's what i have been saying, There is more money in Darts and tiddlywinks than Rugby league and yet you are saying we don't want any truck with your Aussie Billionaires, whatever you call your Canadian team full of English and foreign players, All that said i don't see them being in SL long term unless some of that dosh finds it's way to ESL.

Think there are interesting times ahead in the next few years, going to be big changes, at least on a par with when Sky took over, and Sky themselves seem to be in a battle with Amazon , Netflix , Disney etc. maybe League will come out of that better with better deals.
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:17 pm
Posted by Canoeman on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:17 pm
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Durham Giant wrote:
What a whiny pathetic thread.

If we are good enough we stay up as we are in a competition with 8 other teams 4 of whom will definitely stay in SL.

Issues to do with the weather the fixtures visas etc is rubbish.

I would love Toronto to come up and one of the consistently failing SL heartland teams to go down.

The game needs a boost and expansion to N America is as good a way as getting it as possible



Well said...to the others quickly shake that head 20 times one way and then 20 times the other way...thats right get those cobwebs right out of there...its 2018 by the way. Toronto isn't going anywhere except straight to the top and no one can stop it...its like a tsunami!

"Believe With The Pack!"
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:50 pm
Posted by bilko1941 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:50 pm
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Jo Jumbuck wrote:
Not much there not to agree with Bilko but it doesn't really answer my question , Yes you accept that some clubs need to go, but what you don't say about all this grass roots stuff is , Who is to pay for it ? S League clubs are saying it's not going to be them , they need every penny, The RFL are skint and i don't think they even cover their running costs.( Nobody makes any money except SL)
That's what i have been saying, There is more money in Darts and tiddlywinks than Rugby league and yet you are saying we don't want any truck with your Aussie Billionaires, whatever you call your Canadian team full of English and foreign players, All that said i don't see them being in SL long term unless some of that dosh finds it's way to ESL.

Think there are interesting times ahead in the next few years, going to be big changes, at least on a par with when Sky took over, and Sky themselves seem to be in a battle with Amazon , Netflix , Disney etc. maybe League will come out of that better with better deals.
Young lads after 15 years (sometimes younger) have conflicting interests that most certainly interferes with RL.Usually it is only the keen ones that seem to be able to unite the interests.I both played and coached for a long number of years so I do have first hand knowledge of this and I do keep in touch with a lot of my old teamates both here and abroad who cannot understand why we do not improve a great deal at any level all we seem to do is continually keep shooting ourselves in the foot.Some posters on here seem to think that gate money does not matter a 2000 gate nowadays generate circa £50,000 enough to pay 5 academy players wages for a season if each side brought in a couple of thousand spectators it would go a fair way to alleviate a lot of clubs cash flow.(yes it is pie in the sky).this is my own personal gripe against Catalans Toronto or Toulouse the league will bend over backwards for these clubs who do not/will not bring anything to the ESL table.I do no not pretend to know all the answers just a few and even they are scoffed at by some of the ruling body.Change must come but we may not like it when it does.Once again just an opinion.
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:51 pm
Posted by bilko1941 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:51 pm
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Canoeman wrote:
Well said...to the others quickly shake that head 20 times one way and then 20 times the other way...thats right get those cobwebs right out of there...its 2018 by the way. Toronto isn't going anywhere except straight to the top and no one can stop it...its like a tsunami!

"Believe With The Pack!"
You will have to get some Canuck players first.
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:08 pm
Posted by Lebron James on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:08 pm
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Durham Giant wrote:
What a whiny pathetic thread.

If we are good enough we stay up as we are in a competition with 8 other teams 4 of whom will definitely stay in SL.

Issues to do with the weather the fixtures visas etc is rubbish.

I would love Toronto to come up and one of the consistently failing SL heartland teams to go down.

The game needs a boost and expansion to N America is as good a way as getting it as possible


Well said. The sooner we move away from heartland clubs who contribute nothing to the bigger picture the better

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Surely it can only be a player from Catalans. Probably the best RL side I have ever witnessed in this season's comp.
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:00 pm
Posted by His Bobness on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:00 pm
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Our chairman at Hull KR, Neil Hudgell has made it clear that Toronto are still the subject of due diligence. They are in the competition courtesy of the RFL but Neil Hudgell says the RFL failed to conduct due diligence, the RFL are not in charge of Super League any longer and the Super League clubs have a number of reservations.

The biggest being the inability of Toronto to host home matches during the first 2/3 months of the competition due to the harsh Canadian winter. Neil Hudgell has made it clear that the Super League clubs will not allow Toronto to have a skewed fixture list, during the frozen Canadian months of February & March they will not be allowed to play all games away...they can join the competition but only with the same conditions as every other club.

Whatever happens in the qualifiers don't bank on Toronto being in Super League next year.
I couldn't hear the robin sing if not for you.
Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:21 am
Posted by jools on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:21 am
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His Bobness wrote:
Our chairman at Hull KR, Neil Hudgell has made it clear that Toronto are still the subject of due diligence. They are in the competition courtesy of the RFL but Neil Hudgell says the RFL failed to conduct due diligence, the RFL are not in charge of Super League any longer and the Super League clubs have a number of reservations.

The biggest being the inability of Toronto to host home matches during the first 2/3 months of the competition due to the harsh Canadian winter. Neil Hudgell has made it clear that the Super League clubs will not allow Toronto to have a skewed fixture list, during the frozen Canadian months of February & March they will not be allowed to play all games away...they can join the competition but only with the same conditions as every other club.

Whatever happens in the qualifiers don't bank on Toronto being in Super League next year.


Like hudgell has any clout :lol: :lol:
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack defies logic
Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:41 am
Posted by jools on Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:41 am
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In answer to your question jo- in my eyes the governing body should help to fund the game at grassroots level- it’s they who need to figure out how to facilitate that-as far as I’m concerned that’s their job. It will be partly funded by SL clubs in some respects anyway. There are ways that clubs could be involved for minimal cost such as running training sessions/coaching etc- which they could VOLUNTEER TO DO. Just like the regular coaches/first Aiders/touchline managers etc do!
I know some of this goes on-but more could be done. So many young kids move on to Union, not because it’s a better game, but because the coaching and facilities are better.
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