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Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:56 am
Posted by ComeOnYouUll on Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:56 am
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Old Timer No 4 wrote:
One up,one down..can,t really argue..The best team in the Championship should be promoted, or what,s the point?
They are their divisions champions, as are the team that finishes top of Super League, none of this utter rubbish that the team that wins the "Grand Final" are the champions...utter bull.
Would prefer the old style end of season Premiership Trophy competition.
I still think there should be 14 teams in Super League and the Magic Weekend(if it,s kept)should be on a random draw basis or got rid of.


The rugby league champions have been decided by a play off for most of its history. I'm guessing by 'old timer' you mean post 1973.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:31 am
Posted by Old Timer No 4 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:31 am
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ComeOnYouUll wrote:
The rugby league champions have been decided by a play off for most of its history. I'm guessing by 'old timer' you mean post 1973.


Most of it,s history? The last time "ull fc" were classed as champions I think was 82/83...don,t think they won an end of season competition then...Think they finished top, hence "champions"
Yes, I am post 1973, started watching approx 1960/61, I have seen a lot.
Still think the team that finishes top are the champions, the other competitions are knock out games, good fun, but knock out games.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am
Posted by Mild Rover on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am
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Old Timer No 4 wrote:
Most of it,s history?


This is true. Our championship titles in the '20s and all of Hull's excepting '82-'83 were won in a final. We finished top when Hull won it in 1921, but didn't when we won it in 1923 and 1925.

In fairness though, this was at least in part, for part of that time, because fixture lists were much less even than now - teams didn't even necessarily play the same numbers of games, making complaints about the distortion of the Magic weekend feel relatively petty!

The League-Premiership model has a nicer shape to it imo too, recognizing both as worthy achievements. But there's only so much glory to divide up, so with the success of a showpiece GF, the LLS is massively overshadowed. The only way you can make the league more meaningful is by diminishing the GF or equivalent, and there's seemingly not much appetite for that at the top.

With the notable exception of Association Football (in most leagues), is it fair to say that most sports determine their champion through a final?
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Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:15 am
Posted by barham red on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:15 am
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Old Timer No 4 wrote:
One up,one down..can,t really argue..The best team in the Championship should be promoted, or what,s the point?
They are their divisions champions, as are the team that finishes top of Super League, none of this utter rubbish that the team that wins the "Grand Final" are the champions...utter bull.
Would prefer the old style end of season Premiership Trophy competition.
I still think there should be 14 teams in Super League and the Magic Weekend(if it,s kept)should be on a random draw basis or got rid of.


The number of sports that actually crown champions by finishing top of the league are minimal, football being the exception and even there there is an argument that the premier league is only a vehicle to get into the champions league which in essence is a grand final.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:00 pm
Posted by des lawson on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:00 pm
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Old Timer No 4 wrote:
Most of it,s history? The last time "ull fc" were classed as champions I think was 82/83...don,t think they won an end of season competition then...Think they finished top, hence "champions"
Yes, I am post 1973, started watching approx 1960/61, I have seen a lot.
Still think the team that finishes top are the champions, the other competitions are knock out games, good fun, but knock out games.


My thoughts exactly,the champions should be decided over a season,not a knockout,we have the challenge cup for that.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:24 pm
Posted by Beverley red on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:24 pm
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That’s OK if you have home & away fixtures (ie you play each team in the league the same number of times) the problem is there are 12 teams & that is only 22 games. As the game stands now we are struggling to survive on 29/30 games as it is now & as has been shown the fans we have are avoiding the end of season & cup games in droves. I think the advantage of a play off system is that you can have as many teams in the competition as you want spread as wide as you want & still find a way to play a reasonable number of games to pay the wages & costs. A perfect example is the NFL, Euro league to name two. Where our game I think is wrong is 8 team play off in a 12 team league &we still play our top players to much.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:40 pm
Posted by Someday on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:40 pm
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Beverley red wrote:
That’s OK if you have home & away fixtures (ie you play each team in the league the same number of times) the problem is there are 12 teams & that is only 22 games. As the game stands now we are struggling to survive on 29/30 games as it is now & as has been shown the fans we have are avoiding the end of season & cup games in droves. I think the advantage of a play off system is that you can have as many teams in the competition as you want spread as wide as you want & still find a way to play a reasonable number of games to pay the wages & costs. A perfect example is the NFL, Euro league to name two. Where our game I think is wrong is 8 team play off in a 12 team league &we still play our top players to much.

14 teams or more would help if it was 14 that would be 28 and 29 with magic and then c cup games has well brings it to at the least 30
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:51 pm
Posted by Mild Rover on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:51 pm
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Someday wrote:
14 teams or more would help if it was 14 that would be 28 and 29 with magic and then c cup games has well brings it to at the least 30


Only if each team played themselves H&A. :wink:

If we had enough strong clubs, I'd like to see two conferences of 10. Home and away fixtures within the conference (18 games), home or away against the other conference (10 games). The conference championships would then be more distinct, if still secondary, prizes. Then the top 2 or 3 in each conference enter the play-offs.

But back in the real world...
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:53 pm
Posted by Beverley red on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:53 pm
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Someday wrote:
14 teams or more would help if it was 14 that would be 28 and 29 with magic and then c cup games has well brings it to at the least 30

I agree 14 teams would be better but the moment you add the magic games you take away the even number of games then you need a play off ( unless one team gives up a home game to accommodate it ) It also ignores the fact that most fans are moaning about paying for cup games & not attending as it is. All this talk to me is moving deckchairs on the Titanic instead of attracting people who are prepared to pay decent prices to come through the gate. I wish I had the answer to that but I am sad to say as I & a lot of fans are getting on in years we are not being replaced by younger fans.
Re: robert elstone on sky news
Post Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:58 pm
Posted by DGM on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:58 pm
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des lawson wrote:
My thoughts exactly,the champions should be decided over a season,not a knockout,we have the challenge cup for that.


Why should they? This is Rugby league not football, our traditional way of crowning champions is via playoffs
Cup Winners: 1914, 1982, 2005, 2016, 2017.
Cup Runners-Up: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1922, 1923, 1959, 1960, 1980, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2013.
League Champions: 1920, 1921, 1936, 1956, 1958, 1983.
League Runners-Up: 1957, 1982, 1984, 2006.
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