Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:45 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

WiganBurt the accounts published relate to the previous financial year. When the next accounts are published we will know the financial impact of the Oz trip.

Wigan have previously stated that after a 600k loss last year (the loss of a major sponsor being the main reason for such a loss) they hope to be close to breaking even this year.

The finance losses last term came from upgrades in training facilities and the development of Central Park. The losses are not directly related to salary issues.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:48 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

WiganBurt the accounts published relate to the previous financial year. When the next accounts are published we will know the financial impact of the Oz trip.

Wigan have previously stated that after a 600k loss last year (the loss of a major sponsor being the main reason for such a loss) they hope to be close to breaking even this year.

even so, why have we "lost" FPN, MM and Gells and only replaced with Sarge and Hamlin. are we now saying that those two incoming players are on the equivalent wage as the three who departed between just the two of them?

IL can put as little or as much in as he likes, that's nothing to do with my point anyway. bad decisions galore, wrong players signed / re-signed, wrong contracts handed out. and now the right players are off or rumoured to be wanting away. that worries me, that's my concern. its not wrong that I disagree with you all. it also doesn't mean you are right because you don't agree with me and because you are better at writing snazzy responses!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:10 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

even so, why have we "lost" FPN, MM and Gells and only replaced with Sarge and Hamlin. are we now saying that those two incoming players are on the equivalent wage as the three who departed between just the two of them?

IL can put as little or as much in as he likes, that's nothing to do with my point anyway. bad decisions galore, wrong players signed / re-signed, wrong contracts handed out. and now the right players are off or rumoured to be wanting away. that worries me, that's my concern. its not wrong that I disagree with you all. it also doesn't mean you are right because you don't agree with me and because you are better at writing snazzy responses!

I didnt think it was a snazzy response - just pointing out that the accounts published were from a previous year so wont take into account the Oz trip.

I agree with the two points raised above. I only hope that the club is keeping some salary cap cash aside for identified targets in 2019. Even if this is true however, losing Sam is a huge blow given how central he is to a lot of the good things we do in attack.

Having said thatI dont think Gildart or Bateman will leave and Sutton is hardly irreplaceable, in fact I think his replacement is already here in Hamlin.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:47 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

even so, why have we "lost" FPN, MM and Gells and only replaced with Sarge and Hamlin. are we now saying that those two incoming players are on the equivalent wage as the three who departed between just the two of them?

IL can put as little or as much in as he likes, that's nothing to do with my point anyway. bad decisions galore, wrong players signed / re-signed, wrong contracts handed out. and now the right players are off or rumoured to be wanting away. that worries me, that's my concern. its not wrong that I disagree with you all. it also doesn't mean you are right because you don't agree with me and because you are better at writing snazzy responses!

We lost fpn and gells because they wanted to go (and in fpns case the club weren't unhappy to offload that wage, seems like 90% fans wanted him gone as well)
Sarge may be on similar/same to what gelling was on, I don't know unlike others who seem to have it as Fact even though they don't, but either way it's like for like.
What I will say is that the resigning of younger players on improved contracts may not have happened if the above didn't?

And as for some of the other sentences I'm only going to say that again a lot of it is built on supposition or rumour, if you want to believe it then good luck to you, I know I don't.

As for finances and mismanagement etc.
We've had people on bemoaning the oz trip etc. As people have said well know soon enough how well it went financially.
But to complain about missing 1 match and in effect it's a 7% increase when nearly all clubs put there's up by that amount is a bit tunnel visioned.

I had a quick look pre season and for roughly the same ticket at st helens it was nearly 100 dearer for a season.
Wigan prices are up their as the best/cheapest yet the majority of fans think we're mismanaging it.

We've a larger squad than most, up their quality wise imo and pay the cheapest prices.
Yet some want to stick the boot In to a bloke who's delivered 8/9major trophies in the last 10 years (I'd give him first 2 for free for the rubbish he took over) and continues to put his money in.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

even so, why have we "lost" FPN, MM and Gells and only replaced with Sarge and Hamlin. are we now saying that those two incoming players are on the equivalent wage as the three who departed between just the two of them?

IL can put as little or as much in as he likes, that's nothing to do with my point anyway. bad decisions galore, wrong players signed / re-signed, wrong contracts handed out. and now the right players are off or rumoured to be wanting away. that worries me, that's my concern. its not wrong that I disagree with you all. it also doesn't mean you are right because you don't agree with me and because you are better at writing snazzy responses!

I would hope a chunk went to improved contracts for the likes of Davies and Marshall; they certainly have deserved it.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:16 pm  

Geoff wrote:

I would hope a chunk went to improved contracts for the likes of Davies and Marshall; they certainly have deserved it.

So would I because they were not on a King's ransom, neither was Willie Isa for that matter.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:19 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I get it that you're a genuine fan. But these concerns don't really stack up. On one hand you're angry that some players are being forced out (presumably because of their wage demands), and on the other you're angry that some players are on megabucks.

To be angry about both of those at the same time is a bit self-contradictory.

And all on the basis of guesswork. Escare and Burgess are on a pittance?

And TT on mega bucks?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

i must apologise for not being able to understand Accounts and Finance! but thanks to both of you for picking up on the one tiny detail in all of my comments and jumping onto it like a tramp on a butty. you must be so proud!

if anything, you have backed up my argument anyway... how come all of these grand ventures aren't producing us with additional income? didn't the Oz trip help us make £500k? where's that gone? why are we even bothering with that type of venture in the first place, why is the club so keen on becoming a business more than a sport club? why are they so keen on bringing in additional income?

don't start me with all this, "well it is a business" malarkey, I don't see other clubs having to resort to such things to keep afloat as regular as wigan.

It is very easy to criticise when it is not you who is funding it. I trust IFL to make the right decision for the club, he is not an investor trying to make money he is a supporter of our great club. What is happening with the players currently is no different than what happened previously, if one player is offered more money then somebody has to take a cut. Sutty wants ago in the NRL where hopefully he will make the grade and make himself for life, what's wrong with that? The club cannot compete with the money being offered down under it simply has to put its best offer on the table and let the lad choose. If he decides to go then the club need to plan for the future.

There are a lot of decisions to be made before 2019 but I am confident that the club will get the majority right.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

even so, why have we "lost" FPN, MM and Gells and only replaced with Sarge and Hamlin. are we now saying that those two incoming players are on the equivalent wage as the three who departed between just the two of them?

IL can put as little or as much in as he likes, that's nothing to do with my point anyway. bad decisions galore, wrong players signed / re-signed, wrong contracts handed out. and now the right players are off or rumoured to be wanting away. that worries me, that's my concern. its not wrong that I disagree with you all. it also doesn't mean you are right because you don't agree with me and because you are better at writing snazzy responses!

I can’t agree with the comments about wrong players re-signing? At the time of their signing, in all cases it was 100% the right thing to do and only with hindsight can we say they perhaps didn’t work out as well as they might.

1 - Sam Tomkins - if we hadn’t brought him back when he was rumoured to be going to Wire this board would have been in complete meltdown. Nobody could have foreseen the duration he would spend on the side line.

2 - Joel Tomkins - When Joel came back there was real feel good atmosphere around it. He’d been good in Union and was still young enough and athletic enough to have a good 2nd stint in RL. Injuries and fitness proved to be detrimental to him getting back to form. That said, he’s there now.

3 - Burgess - Clearly struggled in Oz and made the decision to come back. Still 21 and still more potential than any winger I’ve seen in years. Seemed to struggle for fitness last season but going well again now.

4 - Sarginson - not everybody’s cup of tea but neither was Gelling. When it became apparent that Gelling was gone, the club moved quick to bring back a player who is very quick, very workmanlike and who knows our system. It’s not like Greg Inglis types are readily available is it?

My point here is that at the time the club brought them back, it was 100% the right decision.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:56 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

I can’t agree with the comments about wrong players re-signing? At the time of their signing, in all cases it was 100% the right thing to do and only with hindsight can we say they perhaps didn’t work out as well as they might.

1 - Sam Tomkins - if we hadn’t brought him back when he was rumoured to be going to Wire this board would have been in complete meltdown. Nobody could have foreseen the duration he would spend on the side line.

2 - Joel Tomkins - When Joel came back there was real feel good atmosphere around it. He’d been good in Union and was still young enough and athletic enough to have a good 2nd stint in RL. Injuries and fitness proved to be detrimental to him getting back to form. That said, he’s there now.

3 - Burgess - Clearly struggled in Oz and made the decision to come back. Still 21 and still more potential than any winger I’ve seen in years. Seemed to struggle for fitness last season but going well again now.

4 - Sarginson - not everybody’s cup of tea but neither was Gelling. When it became apparent that Gelling was gone, the club moved quick to bring back a player who is very quick, very workmanlike and who knows our system. It’s not like Greg Inglis types are readily available is it?

My point here is that at the time the club brought them back, it was 100% the right decision.

.

Exactly right, and similarly with players we have let go permanently - none have really made us regret that decision.