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Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:21 pm
Posted by Mr Dog on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:21 pm
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Call Me God wrote:
It makes little difference to us or our aspirations or lack of them. Without the Argyle/Beaumont aggressive buying of a squad and bankrolling further when promoted we will shuffle along in the upper half of the 2nd tier until our retired owner vanishes.......and then it's down to the Skolars level and beyond.

What it means for the game is that the top teams (Wigan/Saints/Leeds/Wire/FC) with the sustainable business model will grow, the middle sides (Castleford, Catalan) will strive and the rest will scramble to avoid the drop like they did back in the day and when the money men die off, the likes of Huddersfield, Salford, Wakefield, Widnes and Toronto will join us chasing scraps from the top table......it's all about financial sustainability.....something we've never been good at.


I'm always intrigued as to why Cas seem to be looked upon as more sustainable, bigger, and with more potential than, say, Wakefield? They both have dumps for grounds with promises of new ones going back many years (over 40 in the case of Cas), neither has a sugar Daddy with real wealth and both have been in the financial mire in the not too distant past (Wake with a CVA[?] and Cas within 15mins of going out of business, both during the licencing period that was supposedly going to see the end of that sort of thing). Cas are some £3million in hock to the Fulton family and have been quite fortunate that when Jack Fulton died his heirs didn't demand the money back as was widely expected to happen. Furthermore, Wakefield is a city of some 100,000+ people, whereas Cas is a town of around 40,000 and by some distance the smallest metropolis of all the teams in SL.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:26 pm
Posted by northernbloke on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:26 pm
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So the assumption on here is when DH eventually goes then the club is doomed. The club has had different owners previously and will hopefully have different owners in the future.
As for being self sustaining, not many clubs are! They all need input from somewhere else on top of gate receipts.
As for the 5k required to break even, as a club when did that happen? Early days of SL! Potential of doing so at end of griffin park days is a bit of a strange statement, potential is still not achieving it.
Think a lot of clubs teeter on the edge of existence and rely on someone to bankroll them, sadly until RL as a whole learns how to hit the headlines London Broncos will always struggle to get folk through the door, SL status or not.
Barry Hearn anyone? Let him have a go atpromoting the game, if he can fill stadiums with folk watching darts am sure he could increase the profile of our game.
For Broncos who knows how longer DH will keep the wallet open, let’s hope someone out there sees something that will tempt em into putting money in and we do continue full time.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:52 pm
Posted by jbuzza on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:52 pm
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northernbloke wrote:
As for the 5k required to break even, as a club when did that happen? Early days of SL! Potential of doing so at end of griffin park days is a bit of a strange statement, potential is still not achieving it.
In 1996 (finishing 4th place) we averaged around 5,700 and in 1997 (2nd) over 5,000. For 2005, the last year at Griffin Park it was just over 4,000 (6th). Back at The Stoop in 2006 it was almost 5,000 (7th) but I think that figure may be distorted by a double header crowd if memory serves correct. Anyway, back then, there was potential with a competitive team and more marketing (which DH never seemed that interested in) to grow the attendance to a sustainable level.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:36 pm
Posted by northernbloke on Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:36 pm
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Just saying that griffin park was not 5k.
Potential for 5 is always there, as we have done it in the past.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm
Posted by Bostwick on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm
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I recently spent some time in hospital. A friend bought me in The Rothmans RL Yearbook 1997 to read. Contained within are Club attendances from seasons 1988-89 through to 1996.
London average crowds were 588 in 88-89 rising to 5699 in 1996.
What surprised me most was in 1996 our attendances were the sixth largest in Super League. Bigger crowds that year than. Warrington, Castleford, Halifax, Sheffield, Workington and Oldham.
We did market ourselves then. Five pound vouchers in The Sun for example. Plus we had a good team getting good results. Happy days.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:36 pm
Posted by nadera78 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:36 pm
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Bostwick wrote:
I recently spent some time in hospital. A friend bought me in The Rothmans RL Yearbook 1997 to read. Contained within are Club attendances from seasons 1988-89 through to 1996.
London average crowds were 588 in 88-89 rising to 5699 in 1996.
What surprised me most was in 1996 our attendances were the sixth largest in Super League. Bigger crowds that year than. Warrington, Castleford, Halifax, Sheffield, Workington and Oldham.
We did market ourselves then. Five pound vouchers in The Sun for example. Plus we had a good team getting good results. Happy days.


My first live RL game was Broncos first ever home game (under the new name, obviously) v Keighley at Hendon FC. An interesting experience having only watched the game on TV until then! The growth from that position over the following few years was fantastic and I thought the club was really going places.
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:23 pm
Posted by the rugbyman on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:23 pm
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[imgur]g
nadera78 wrote:
Bostwick wrote:
I recently spent some time in hospital. A friend bought me in The Rothmans RL Yearbook 1997 to read. Contained within are Club attendances from seasons 1988-89 through to 1996.
London average crowds were 588 in 88-89 rising to 5699 in 1996.
What surprised me most was in 1996 our attendances were the sixth largest in Super League. Bigger crowds that year than. Warrington, Castleford, Halifax, Sheffield, Workington and Oldham.
We did market ourselves then. Five pound vouchers in The Sun for example. Plus we had a good team getting good results. Happy days.


My first live RL game was Broncos first ever home game (under the new name, obviously) v Keighley at Hendon FC. An interesting experience having only watched the game on TV until then! The growth from that position over the following few years was fantastic and I thought the club was really going places.
[/imgur]
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:28 pm
Posted by the rugbyman on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:28 pm
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Bostwick wrote:
I recently spent some time in hospital. A friend bought me in The Rothmans RL Yearbook 1997 to read. Contained within are Club attendances from seasons 1988-89 through to 1996.
London average crowds were 588 in 88-89 rising to 5699 in 1996.
What surprised me most was in 1996 our attendances were the sixth largest in Super League. Bigger crowds that year than. Warrington, Castleford, Halifax, Sheffield, Workington and Oldham.
We did market ourselves then. Five pound vouchers in The Sun for example. Plus we had a good team getting good results. Happy days.


Oh those days of average crowds of 588. Must have been the Chiswick/Crystal Palace era I think..and I’m glad we never had mobile phones in those days ..some of the players antics then makes the Tomkins brothers sound like choirboys !!

Can think of a dozen or so players that liked to socialise as I write !
Fun days :)
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:44 pm
Posted by Call Me God on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:44 pm
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Mr Dog wrote:
I'm always intrigued as to why Cas seem to be looked upon as more sustainable, bigger, and with more potential than, say, Wakefield?

9,525 was the average attendance at Castleford in 2017.....5,289 was the number at Wakefield...one club is closer to 10k than the other and those extra fans make them closer to self sustainability.
10k average is the self sufficiency number....and that's with the SKY cash.......every fan below 10,000 means £15/£20 less income and £15/£20 needed to be found from elsewhere.........thus, currently, Wakefield aren't as close to sustainability as Castleford and therefore by association are bigger and are more sustainable whilst filling more of their potential.
JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:
Re: Super 8’s scrapped from 2019
Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:03 pm
Posted by jbuzza on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:03 pm
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northernbloke wrote:
Just saying that griffin park was not 5k.
Potential for 5 is always there, as we have done it in the past.


I don't think I said it was 5k at Griffin Park, but 4k is clearly a lot closer to it than 500. Different times have different potential to be sustainable. We are a long way from that now not least because there is very little attempt to build the crowds.
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