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Re: Wakefield
Post Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:38 pm
Posted by Itchy Arsenal on Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:38 pm
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RichieS wrote:
Regardless of how much we measure our squads against each other, it will come down to team work, form and ultimately discipline...who ever wants it more on Sunday will come away with the points. If we give Wakefield penalties Finn will kick us all over the place. If we keep it together it will be a really tight game, I for one am glad we have the full seven day recovery before Cas the following week, we will have some tired bodies.

I like Chris Chester a lot, always have. He is a fantastic coach and a very, very shrewd man-manager...Wakefield are in safe hands with him.

Why will we have tired bodies??
It is the 5th game in and none of the props have done more than 40 minutes a game.
If you tell a guy that he is or will be tired then he will be.
Personally I find the fact that none of our props can do more than 15 to 20 minute stints just sheer embarrassing.
I think that this "save it for the business end" malarkey is one of the main reasons why we have such a lack of intensity in every game that we play.
Re: Wakefield
Post Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm
Posted by Geoff on Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm
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[quote="Tricky2309"]
Ashurst is banned, though, isn’t he?
Re: Wakefield
Post Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:38 pm
Posted by dboy on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:38 pm
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[quote="Geoff"]

No, in the New World Order (of SL), Wakey now run the joint and we have had Ashurst unbanned.
Re: Wakefield
Post Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 pm
Posted by upthecats on Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 pm
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Really nice to come on here and read so many positive comments about us! It doesn't seem that long ago that we were heading to places like Wigan with the sole aim of keeping the score respectable and under 40 points! That so many Wakey fans, and Wigan for that matter, think we have a chance is great credit to how far we have come..

I put it down to the brilliant appointment of Chris Chester as coach! The hard work had really started off the field financially to put us in a better position, then since Chester came in we haven't looked back.

The big turning point for me was a home walloping by Hull...we'd been on a great run under Chester and then they rolled into town....we performed well and went toe to toe with them for large parts but in the end were a clear second best. I remember him speaking after about how Hull had bullied us in the forwards and that at times we could be a bit soft and had previously been bullied by bigger packs and it was an issue that needed sorting.

If you look at the pack he's assembled both last season, and this....Fifita, Huby, England, Pauli, Hirst...that is some size and power that won't be bullied by any team in the comp....what he's got to complement that too is arguably one of the hardest working backrows in the league in Ashurst and Arona (2 certain starters every week) both capable of 50 plus tackles a game with few misses...Arona 59 and 0 in France last week...plus any one of Kirmond, who's being looked after these days and being kept fresh which is improving his form....Horo who can add a touch of class being an ex NZ international...and James Batchelor who's not even had a sniff yet but a lad I firmly believe is one of the brightest young prospects in the game and is an absolute certainty to represent his country in the future!

We've pace all along the backline and two halfbacks who really complement each other and two top quality number nines with Rocky Hampshire adding cover....I suppose it comes with watching your own team week in week out but players like Kyle Wood are so under rated it's untrue...when he resigned with us I'll admit to being a little underwhelmed at the time but he's been absolutely fantastic and matured into a very, very good hooker!

I sometimes have to sit and pinch myself as to how far we have come in such a short space of time...we've assembled the best squad I've seen us have by far in 30 years of watching us...we try and play in the right way, and all that on the lowest budget in the league!

Really looking forward to coming over Sunday, cannot wait for what will be a huge test of how far we have come!
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Re: Wakefield
Post Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 pm
Posted by MattyB on Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 pm
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Just a bit off-topic. I think Wigan have missed a trick not playing the match on Friday evening this week. Instead we’re playing it at 3pm on Mother’s Day. Surely this will have an effect on the attendance?
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Re: Wakefield
Post Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:17 pm
Posted by NickyKiss on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:17 pm
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MattyB wrote:
Just a bit off-topic. I think Wigan have missed a trick not playing the match on Friday evening this week. Instead we’re playing it at 3pm on Mother’s Day. Surely this will have an effect on the attendance?


Latics are at home Saturday and I’m pretty sure we’ll have some sort of agreement to try and avoid too many nights were Rugby is played Friday then football Saturday on that pitch.

You’re right though, it will have an impact. I don’t think my missus has clicked yet when I keep saying I’m at the rugby Sunday :D
Re: Wakefield
Post Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:25 am
Posted by secondstanza on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:25 am
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I like Wakey and I like Chester - heard bad things about going to their ground but never been so can't comment.

I'm really envious of their pack in particular. Their backline is good too but I wouldn't personally swap anyone. I'd be very pleased to take 2 of their front rowers off their hands though!

Can't speak about their off the field issues but lets not forget they were in the MPG in 2015 to then finish 5th in 2017 - that is phenomenal and deserves credit.
Re: Wakefield
Post Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:37 am
Posted by Father Ted on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:37 am
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The Wakey fan there "UptheCats" outlines something that Chester identified as a problem namely their pack being too small and getting bullied. He went out and signed some big men and the size of their pack is now formidable.

We identified the same problem after the Roosters game in 2014 but we've not gone out and recruited that many big men. FPN was big and that didn't work out but overall we do need to bring in bigger players into the pack when opportunity arises.
If Bateman and Sutton were to leave as rumoured the that will be an opportunity to bring in bigger men into their positions. That is as long as they are good enough.
Meantime on Sunday we'll see how the Wigan and Wakefield forwards handle each other and their tactics to beat their respective opponents.
Re: Wakefield
Post Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:40 pm
Posted by Wigg'n on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:40 pm
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Father Ted wrote:
The Wakey fan there "UptheCats" outlines something that Chester identified as a problem namely their pack being too small and getting bullied. He went out and signed some big men and the size of their pack is now formidable.

We identified the same problem after the Roosters game in 2014 but we've not gone out and recruited that many big men. FPN was big and that didn't work out but overall we do need to bring in bigger players into the pack when opportunity arises.
If Bateman and Sutton were to leave as rumoured the that will be an opportunity to bring in bigger men into their positions. That is as long as they are good enough.
Meantime on Sunday we'll see how the Wigan and Wakefield forwards handle each other and their tactics to beat their respective opponents.


Agree 100%.

I think a smaller pack can come on top against a much bigger pack (moreso in SL) but it requires a very crafty hooker to tire their forwards out... and we don't have one. Without that we can't spread to the ball to our backs and create space with any success and games either turn into an arm wrestle or their forwards steamroller ours and we get hammered.

Has Wane ever been asked re: his comments after the Roosters game in 2014 and why he hasn't stuck to that plan? We really do seem to be a team that doesn't learn from its mistakes on the field (aside from moving Tommy to 9 after last year).
Re: Wakefield
Post Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:01 pm
Posted by Cherry_&_White on Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:01 pm
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Adam_Harrison9 wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of these are too close to call in that they cancel each other out. I think because we only see our own side the majority of the time it does lend a bit of bias. Also we have to take into account that I think sometimes more credence is given to players in teams like Wigan because they're fashionable. They are seen as stars because they play for traditionally a massive rugby league club which is a testament to them. They are obviously good players. However, that said, you have got to go on the form of the players over the last 12 months and what they have done on the field.

Wakefield beat Wigan 2 out of 3 times last season and also finished above them in the table. This would suggest that Wakefield on the whole over the last 12 months have better players on a man to man basis.

Here's my thoughts man for man:

Tomkins - Quality player in the past... seems to have started well this year but has he been better than Grix (who has been immense for Wakefield right up until yesterday)? Probably not but he is a ore "fashionable" player. But why would I pick him over a player who hasn't put a foot wrong?

Davies/Burgess/Marshall - Johnstone is better than all 3 and I'd say MCB and BJB are just as good as them as well. Close to call.

Gildart - Really like him and I think he'd get in the Wakefield side over Lyne/Arundel (two players who haven't let us down as well may I add!)

Sarginson - Bit of an unknown as regards current form as went to Australia but like you say, I'd take Tupou as I think Tupou is one of the best centres in the league at the minute.

Williams - Again, fashionable player. Had an excellent season a couple of seasons ago - last year he wasn't all that. If he plays to the best of his ability then yes I'd have him over Finn but Finn has an advantage over Williams upstairs. He's got a better rugby brain and he controls a game better than Williams. Has Williams been better than Finn for the last 12 months? As someone who sees Finn week in week out and sees Williams whenever he is on telly - I'd doubt he has been.

Leuluai/Escare - Are either better than Miller? No. Escare I quite like but he hasn't been as good as Miller.

Powell - I'd rather have Kyle Wood or Tyler Randall any day tbh. I don't rate Powell at all.

Bateman - He would get in our side as he is better than Horo/Kirmond

Farrell - Again, a fashionable name but has he been better than Matty Ashurst? No. I'd take Ashurst all day long.

Clubb - I like Clubb but he doesn't play big minutes and Fifita is a far better Prop.

Flower - Is he really any better than Huby or England or Fifita or Pauli Pauli? Again, pretty evenly matched here in terms of quality in my opinion.

O'Loughlin - Quality player - misses a lot of games. Probably not the player he was a few years ago? Tinirau Arona plays loose for us atm. Arona made 50 odd tackles against Catalan last week - 2 interchanges down - he missed zero of those. O'Loughlin is the fashionable Rugby League name but again when it comes to it - on current form is he miles better than Arona? Not for me. It's a close one.

Where Wigan do have the upper hand is there depth and the conveyor belt of youngsters they have that are of a quality standard. Even in that department Wakefield are catching up bringing through the likes of Jowitt, Batchelor, Crowther in recent years and Luke Hooley on the fringes this year with Ackroyd.

So, I know Wigan have some big names that have done well in the past but currently are they much better man for man than their Wakefield counterparts? I only see a handful of Wigan players where I would without hesitation be willing to put them in the Wakefield team at the expense of a current Wakefield player.

I think you've got a good squad this year, and are quite capable of turning us over on Sunday. There's plenty I agree with in your post actually, but there are couple of players who deserve much more credit for me.

S. Tomkins - Your view seems to be quite popular, even amongst some Wigan fans, but for me hugely underrates Tomkins contribution. It's obvious that he's a different player since he's got back from NZ, but there are still things he does on a pretty regular basis that we take as a given, that a huge majority of players simply can't produce, and would be raved about if his name wasn't Tomkins. Even defensively Tomkins is a lot better than people give him credit for, and I'd definitely have him in the team in front of Grix (who don't get me wrong, has had a great 12 months as far as I've seen).

Farrell - Wasn't nearly at his best for the back end of last year. Apparently had a longstanding hip injury. Bit early to say what his form has been like this season, but he's a vastly underrated player who has stood out as a key player in trophy winning sides. If he's anywhere near full fitness, I don't think there's any comparison whatsoever with Matty Ashurst.

O'Loughlin - Still an absolute Rolls Royce of a player, who no other 13 in SL gets close to in terms of ability or influence on the team. Absolute shoe in, and that's no reflection on the form of Arona.


I think I rate our wingers slightly higher than you do also, but I'm probably splitting hairs slightly, and as you say we're all guilty of being a bit biased towards our own team. No doubt your pack looks fearsome, and I worry about how we're going to deal with it on Sunday.
We will now get beat 52-0 on Sunday and I'll look like an idiot. No change there then :lol:
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