Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:25 am  

RichieS wrote:

A rugby league career is short, you cannot blame any individual for wanting to experience different climates and sporting environments. I would expect both George Williams, Gildart, Ryan Sutton and even Tom Davies for that matter to want to play professionally within the NRL.

A contract is a commitment from the individual to play for/represent the club. As far as I am concerned Gildart gives his all and honors that contract week in week out, as his deal is expiring he is entitled to say whatever he pleases regards what happens when that contract ends, it does not change his commitment to his current contract. I would be more concerned if he signed a new deal then immediately started saying he wants to play in a different continent.

again that's partially my issue; his contract is due up so he is basically talking himself up to either get a better contract from wigan (holding us to ransom) or to potentially get a move to Oz. like I say I don't deny he is permitted to do so but why is it always when a contract is due to expire or when a player is linked elsewhere? i'd expect the likes of burgess, GW and OG to commit to wigan while they are still very young and have many years ahead of them to fulfil a move elsewhere, otherwise why are wigan putting so much commitment into them? this goes back to one of my original points, that players these days seem to be using wigan as a stepping stone rather than one where they want to put the shirt on for pride alone - those days seem long gone. plus, if you think OG has been giving his best of late you must be watching something else to what I am. our best player this year is a toss up between ST and ME so far, and wigan look to be signing Hardaker which is surely a kick int he teeth of ME who must be on a pittance as I can't see the club getting rid of ST. so you then think, is the Zak move to cover centre? if so, then i'd be happy because it means the club is resigned to thinking it is going to be without OG soon enough.

these days it seems to be a move to wigan will help you get something better. it used to be that a move to wigan was the best. and I fear the club is going into financial meltdown as a result of this. IL isn't going to pump his own money into the club forever. I want the players at the club to match the ambition WITH the club not to use it as a step on the career ladder. if they EARN a move then fair enough, but OG is nowhere near earned his stripes at wigan yet and neither has GW.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:41 am  

I think we as fans have to accept the golden days one one club players is over,players rightly I might add look out for themselves and will strive to get the best possible deal wherever that deal may take them.

Are Williams,Sutton and even Gildart ready for the NRL?in my opinion not in a million years but I’m not signing the deals that will take them over so really it matters little what I think,but the “proof”( for want of a better word), very few players come back better than before they went over,again in my opinion,and as such they should think long and hard about any deal before going.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 am  

hengirl wrote:

I think we as fans have to accept the golden days one one club players is over,players rightly I might add look out for themselves and will strive to get the best possible deal wherever that deal may take them.

Are Williams,Sutton and even Gildart ready for the NRL?in my opinion not in a million years but I’m not signing the deals that will take them over so really it matters little what I think,but the “proof”( for want of a better word), very few players come back better than before they went over,again in my opinion,and as such they should think long and hard about any deal before going.

perhaps I was a little too strong on the golden era point, but my main gripe ultimately is that in an era with the Salary Cap such as it is, wigan should not be being made fools by players asking (and getting) more than what they are showing they are worth. i'd happily keep OG and GW at wigan for many years because I can see the potential in them, I've never denied that. but I don't like how players earn what they are potentially worth when they have not yet earned it. this is proven in the last couple of years when we've made little movement on the transfer market. only now by freeing up space from MM and FPN do we have some space to move.

the club is responsible in that respect might I add. but the players are certainly playing their part too.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:56 pm  

Ryan Sutton is nowhere near good enough for the NRL. I wouldn’t rate him as one of the best Super League props being totally honest.

I’d be happy to see Gildart given a chance, he gives his all week in week out and is sometimes an under appreciated player.

George Williams still has some way to go before he can be considered good enough for the NRL. His form has been nothing but below par since he signed his mega deal and Matty Smith left. His now trademark hop/skip/dummy is poor. IMO he is a player who needs an organizing HB partner, Williams clearly cannot be that player.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:39 am  

To me, it would be morally wrong to try and prevent players from getting the deals that will seal their sporting careers, whether that be in the NRL or with RU. We all remember the terrible days when Welsh RU lads who came to RL were treated like pariahs whenever they went home. That's a nonsensical approach, which we should never endorse and which patently didn't work. By the same token, getting lads to stop talking to the press about ambitions that may lie beyond Wigan - while that might superficially please us (me included), it wouldn't stop them having these ambitions, or talking to their agents about them.

It seems to me that the REAL problem with all this is that we, as a game, are not doing anything to make these alternative options less enticing.

Moving around the world or to a different sport is an onerous thing for a young lad (especially if he's got a young family who are settled here). I'm sure many would rather stay in the UK and in RL if the financial rewards were commensurate.

And we all know what the solution to that is. The whole structure of the salary cap needs to be massively overhauled, so that it isn't just some empty-headed left-wing device designed exclusively to limit the aspirations of the 'rich'. Clubs should be rewarded for developing their own talent and for luring RU players to RL with BIG salary cap dispensations, while players who reach international standard should be encouraged to continue to entertain the crowds whose money has enabled them to do this by seeing their wages topped up with central funding, or again by SC dispensation.

The 'marquee player' thing was a step in the right direction, but it's nowhere near enough. Hopefully, now that idiot has departed Red Hall, other more radical changes will follow.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:31 pm  

Sadly Cruncher it is unlikely to happen - too many clubs will not go for it claiming no money , being left behind etc etc and it will never get voted through. There are too many clubs with a lack of ambition off the pitch to try and grow their income and capitalise on other activities. You only have to look at what has happened at reserve level to see that. Some clubs will never vote for anything that is likely to lead to a non-level playing field. As the last Salford chairman found out - you can't change things from the status quo.

Until the game as whole starts to generate more income it will remain a dream and that looks less and less likely with each passing year.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:53 pm  

exiled Warrior wrote:

Sadly Cruncher it is unlikely to happen - too many clubs will not go for it claiming no money , being left behind etc etc and it will never get voted through. There are too many clubs with a lack of ambition off the pitch to try and grow their income and capitalise on other activities. You only have to look at what has happened at reserve level to see that. Some clubs will never vote for anything that is likely to lead to a non-level playing field. As the last Salford chairman found out - you can't change things from the status quo.

Until the game as whole starts to generate more income it will remain a dream and that looks less and less likely with each passing year.

In the mean time WE need to manage our salary cap allocation.

We have 2 marquee players and I would thing others in the squad that are at the moment not providing value for money. Increasing the spend available is only a benefit if you get the on field performances for that extra spend. At the moment we don’t seem capable of doing that.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:59 pm  

jonh wrote:

In the mean time WE need to manage our salary cap allocation.

We have 2 marquee players and I would thing others in the squad that are at the moment not providing value for money. Increasing the spend available is only a benefit if you get the on field performances for that extra spend. At the moment we don’t seem capable of doing that.

my sentiments exactly.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:08 pm  

jonh wrote:

In the mean time WE need to manage our salary cap allocation.

We have 2 marquee players and I would thing others in the squad that are at the moment not providing value for money. Increasing the spend available is only a benefit if you get the on field performances for that extra spend. At the moment we don’t seem capable of doing that.

I wouldn't argue with that, but it doesn't change the fact that we are losing players to Australia because they can earn more money over there.

Wigan's salary cap management aside, at some point British RL as a whole needs to decide whether it wants the domestic game to thrive, or to continue dwindling. I can't see the former ever happening as long as so much (expensively developed) home-grown talent is allowed to drain away before it hits its peak.

The stuff about the Hearns getting involved in SL is very interesting. Those guys are all about star-billing, star names, star-studded shows etc. I can't see guys like that thinking there's anything worthwhile we can do as long as we're labouring under a low and inflexible salary cap - so I wouldn't automatically assume that it's unassailable.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:08 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I wouldn't argue with that, but it doesn't change the fact that we are losing players to Australia because they can earn more money over there.

Wigan's salary cap management aside, at some point British RL as a whole needs to decide whether it wants the domestic game to thrive, or to continue dwindling. I can't see the former ever happening as long as so much (expensively developed) home-grown talent is allowed to drain away before it hits its peak.

The stuff about the Hearns getting involved in SL is very interesting. Those guys are all about star-billing, star names, star-studded shows etc. I can't see guys like that thinking there's anything worthwhile we can do as long as we're labouring under a low and inflexible salary cap - so I wouldn't automatically assume that it's unassailable.

Totally agree.
IL etc see the future of the game in club rugby, build on SL, which is the strongest part of the game, makes sense. Just need the right people behind it to push it forward.

Think Hearn is only looking at getting involved in one off events, Magic weekend etc.