Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:10 am  

Call Me God wrote:

Halifax has a population of near 100,000 people and last season were one of 6 sides in the Championship from West Yorkshire, with a population of 2.3 million....so how come with 30 "local derbies" in the regular season we aren't filling The Shay, Odsal, Mt Pleasant etc? 2,027 was the average gate for the Championship in 2017 and now with HKR and Bradford elsewhere, I can see that dropping down again in 2018....Toronto might draw a few curious fans back for one game, but what are the clubs doing to attract more fans?
This isn't a pop at Fax or west Yorkshire clubs BTW.......just a genuine question. If we're not going to accept offers of new territories from "supposedly cashed up" owners in far flung cities, what are we going to do about the decline in interest in the heartlands?

Get where you are comming from
But, reading all these pages upon pages of how expansion is the saviour of Rugby League, can someone out there help me out with a few questions that dont seem to be answered - (I am but a simple man)

1. I have read: Catalans (Toulouse) bring more to the table than say Leigh or Widnes. What do they bring, what I can see is they have been in SL for many a year now. They bring no fans, they are covered by SKY, so what do they bring? do they actually put money into the RL?

2. Toronto apparently with there multi billion TV deal - well they were operationg last season on Premier Sports, does anyone know how much they injected into the RL if anything. Again another team with a taxi load of fans.

3. New York some on here have stated get them in Super League, they dont even have a team yet - If we think the Americans are going to travel to the North of England with all their equipment to show RL live - err dont think so.

4. Marketing again read loads about marketing - you can spend thousands of pounds on me trying to sell synchronised swimming to me, but if I dont want to go I wont.

5. Anyone remember these: gateshead who, Paris what, kent who, Scarborough err, yea all these made up clubs have been, tried it and gone.
We have been there wore the shirt, eat the stew before.
That is probably why a majority of us are sceptical.

6. Read Perez, cracking bloke, he will take over the world - again wasnt Marwan an early Perez, where is he now.

I am not a doom and gloom merchant, we have seen all this come and go before, My opinion rightly or wrongly is we are were we are, like it or lump it and I cant see it improving.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:43 am  

Zulu01 wrote:

Get where you are comming from
But, reading all these pages upon pages of how expansion is the saviour of Rugby League, can someone out there help me out with a few questions that dont seem to be answered - (I am but a simple man)

1. I have read: Catalans (Toulouse) bring more to the table than say Leigh or Widnes. What do they bring, what I can see is they have been in SL for many a year now. They bring no fans, they are covered by SKY, so what do they bring? do they actually put money into the RL?

Away fans is a pointless measure of what a club brings to the party.

What the Catalans have brought is European TV coverage, a largely redeveloped venue, more French professional players than every before, a portfolio of sponsors that has included Nike, Renault and Air France-KLM and they have increased our geographic spread. I'd say that's a pretty good contribution.

And in any case, why are expansion clubs held up to this higher standard as to what they contribute to the rest of us? Is it not enough for them to simply be good clubs in their own right?

2. Toronto apparently with there multi billion TV deal - well they were operationg last season on Premier Sports, does anyone know how much they injected into the RL if anything. Again another team with a taxi load of fans.

Their average gate was more than many established Super League clubs.

4. Marketing again read loads about marketing - you can spend thousands of pounds on me trying to sell synchronised swimming to me, but if I dont want to go I wont.

Marketing isn't about getting people to do what they don't want to do, or like what they want don't want to like. It's about peaking interest, raising profile and making it easy to buy - whether that's tickets, merchandise or corporate partnerships.

Look at the new kits thread as a simple example. Some of the pictures in there look like they've been taken in the cleaner's cupboard. The Bulls photo barely shows the shirt. That's an example of where our marketing is mickey poor.

Marketing is an investment and like all investments it carries risk, but good marketers do what they can to mitigate that risk and maximise return.

5. Anyone remember these: gateshead who, Paris what, kent who, Scarborough err, yea all these made up clubs have been, tried it and gone.
We have been there wore the shirt, eat the stew before.
That is probably why a majority of us are sceptical.

Nobody is disputing that the track record isn't good, but past failure is not an indicator of future success or failure.

Yes, there is risk. But I'd argue the greatest risk is in not looking to expand our audience reach.

6. Read Perez, cracking bloke, he will take over the world - again wasnt Marwan an early Perez, where is he now.

As above.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:53 am  

Thanx BR, still not entirely convinced, just got in off nights and going to bed. I will have a proper read tonight, thanx again

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:47 am  

It keeps on coming up that away fans "don't matter". Of course they do. A healthy away support not only generates more much needed cash for the home team, but also creates a more vibrant atmosphere at the game. That in itself can generate more up-front interest in the match, and hence a few more paying spectators through the turnstiles.

I still fail to see what a rich benefactor pumping money into a club on the other side of the Atlantic/English Channel does for the game in the UK? They'll still take their share of the TV money after all.

In terms of this supposed decline in interest, crowds rose with the advent of Super League, but have remained fairly static for the last 10 years. Actually not that bad considering that we've been in recession and there are more and more leisure activities popping up for folk to do nowadays.

The game does need a re-vamp though. Professionalism in the sport has created a somewhat more sterile game to watch, with a big focus on following a "game plan" and not making mistakes. A tricky one to resolve, but remember that American Football has evolved from Rugby Union but bears little resemblance now.

One idea mooted elsewhere has been to distribute TV money unequally, with the lowest placed teams receiving the most cash for the next season. We don't like rewarding failure in the UK, so doubt it would ever take off, but it's a similar principle as used by American Football where the lowest placed teams get first dibs at selecting players in the annual draft system. This would help create a more level playing field that wasn't dominated by the same teams every year.

I'm not against teams in France, Canada or the US per se, but if they are to join our leagues then they should follow exactly the same operational rules as everyone else, without any favouritism whether financial or otherwise.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:48 am  

vastman wrote:

What inverse snobbery! I have no issue with expansion but it needs to be done properly and not at the expense of what we already have - if you want a golden egg you don't kill the Goose thats laying it do you.

Love to see the game in London, Paris and New York but why does that have to be at the expense of the games heartland - the heartland that so many pseudo intellectuals on hear sneer at at. No other supporters of other sports seem so hell bent on junking their heritage as we do and that shows to me that we suffer a massive lack of self esteem.

People like you are not 'expansionists' you are dreamers and fantasists and they are a million miles apart. It's all quick fixes and bling or to put it in a Northern way it's all Fur and no knickers.

Get the heartland game vibrant and strong. Make the M62 corridor a fortress of the game - make it work in the hinterlands and the rest will follow - like most things it's simple, what part of it don't you get?

Careful Vastman, I'm beginning to like you.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:07 am  

HXSparky wrote:

It keeps on coming up that away fans "don't matter". Of course they do. A healthy away support not only generates more much needed cash for the home team, but also creates a more vibrant atmosphere at the game. That in itself can generate more up-front interest in the match, and hence a few more paying spectators through the turnstiles.

I still fail to see what a rich benefactor pumping money into a club on the other side of the Atlantic/English Channel does for the game in the UK? They'll still take their share of the TV money after all.

In terms of this supposed decline in interest, crowds rose with the advent of Super League, but have remained fairly static for the last 10 years. Actually not that bad considering that we've been in recession and there are more and more leisure activities popping up for folk to do nowadays.

The game does need a re-vamp though. Professionalism in the sport has created a somewhat more sterile game to watch, with a big focus on following a "game plan" and not making mistakes. A tricky one to resolve, but remember that American Football has evolved from Rugby Union but bears little resemblance now.

One idea mooted elsewhere has been to distribute TV money unequally, with the lowest placed teams receiving the most cash for the next season. We don't like rewarding failure in the UK, so doubt it would ever take off, but it's a similar principle as used by American Football where the lowest placed teams get first dibs at selecting players in the annual draft system. This would help create a more level playing field that wasn't dominated by the same teams every year.

I'm not against teams in France, Canada or the US per se, but if they are to join our leagues then they should follow exactly the same operational rules as everyone else, without any favouritism whether financial or otherwise.

I'm with you Sparky,but you're wasting your valuable time with these clowns mate.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:07 pm  

Zulu01 wrote:

Get where you are comming from
But, reading all these pages upon pages of how expansion is the saviour of Rugby League, can someone out there help me out with a few questions that dont seem to be answered - (I am but a simple man)

1. I have read: Catalans (Toulouse) bring more to the table than say Leigh or Widnes. What do they bring, what I can see is they have been in SL for many a year now. They bring no fans, they are covered by SKY, so what do they bring? do they actually put money into the RL?

2. Toronto apparently with there multi billion TV deal - well they were operationg last season on Premier Sports, does anyone know how much they injected into the RL if anything. Again another team with a taxi load of fans.

3. New York some on here have stated get them in Super League, they dont even have a team yet - If we think the Americans are going to travel to the North of England with all their equipment to show RL live - err dont think so.

4. Marketing again read loads about marketing - you can spend thousands of pounds on me trying to sell synchronised swimming to me, but if I dont want to go I wont.

5. Anyone remember these: gateshead who, Paris what, kent who, Scarborough err, yea all these made up clubs have been, tried it and gone.
We have been there wore the shirt, eat the stew before.
That is probably why a majority of us are sceptical.

6. Read Perez, cracking bloke, he will take over the world - again wasnt Marwan an early Perez, where is he now.

I am not a doom and gloom merchant, we have seen all this come and go before, My opinion rightly or wrongly is we are were we are, like it or lump it and I cant see it improving.

Deary me. What do Catalan bring apart from 14/15 televised games a year for Sky. 9,000 average home fans. Second largest turnover in the league, one of the top academy teams in the league, widens the player pool with more French players in SL than ever before and improving every year.

But hey Fev will bring a couple hundred of away fans so lets kick Catalan to the curb.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:14 pm  

It doesn't need to be one or the other. But I would sacrafice any so called Championship heartland club for the Catalan club.

[Wildthing]

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:11 pm  

tenerifeRhino wrote:

It doesn't need to be one or the other. But I would sacrafice any so called Championship heartland club for the Catalan club.

All the while knowing your club is safe and sound in SL and will be for a long time.
Nice.

Re: SL to return to 14 in 2019 : Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:59 pm  

Whilst I agree with the pros of having Catalans in SL, they do need to give themselves a kick up the backside. The last 18 months compared to how things were looking like for them 5/6/7 years ago has been quite poor. We don't need the 2017 version of Catalans heading forward so they shouldn't be untouchable.