Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:03 pm  

Cherry_Warrior wrote:

The same as everyone else naturally. But we have seen a lot more of him since. I am not knocking him i am merley stating a fact. I thought Ainscough was the business when he first came on the scene too. I think i have done it to death now but i have made it clear what i personally think he needs to do and that on stats Davies has made less errors and made a huge amount of metres more etc. If the league are saying Marshall is better than it shows that they just look at the one statistic. Try's

Davies > Marshall definitely, based on this season at least.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:46 pm  

The Albert Goldthorpe Award and its Rookie equivalent are awarded by League Express and are nothing to do with the RFL or Sky. The main one is decided by totalling up points awarded over the season by the reporters that cover each match for them. The 3 best performing players in a match (in the reporter's opinion) are given 3, 2 and 1 point. The man with the most points over the season gets the award. I assume the rookie award gets awarded on a similar basis with the highest scoring rookie getting the award. Thus a player who has a few standout games can scoop a good points tally and the award while a player who is more consistent but stands out as the best on the pitch less often doesn't rack up points and so doesn't.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:19 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

This is a cracking post and pretty much echoes the way I felt last year and this.

I admire what Wane has done at the club but deep down wonder how well we could actually have done by investing in a bit more quality rather than the policy of project signings and back to the future signings. I'm not sure where the blame lies for this but at the least Wane, Radlinski and Lenegan must share it for the erosion of quality performances and personnel.

I also find myself turned off by our tactics as well. The petulant, niggly, bully boy tactics aren't how I want to see my side play. We run a fine line week in week out with the third man tackles which appear to be increasing in their frequency.

The number of people I see on their phones during games is also an indicator of the standard on the field.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:37 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

Yep great post.

I dont think any Wigan fans will be unhappy over the level of success in recent years. Since Michael Maguire came on the scene in 2010 we've won 7 trophies in 8 years and made it to a further 3 finals. I think we would have taken that after leaving Knowsley Road in 2009 having been beaten in yet another semi-final.

There are two very simple problems however- the squad is not reaching a level close to their potential and we play a brand of rugby that has little to no entertainment value.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:56 pm  

Just to give you some perspective from over t'hill (intended to be constructive).

I think the views of your fans, perhaps with the exception of Cas this year, pretty much mirror fans of the game as a whole. The sport has been sterilised to the point where it's no longer attractive. For the first time in 30 odd years I missed Saints home games this year for the same reasons cited on here.

Gone is the needle and the biff. How many teams these days have real hard men, enforcers, who would scare the life out of the opposition and enrage rival fans with their antics? Similarly, where are the 'great' home-based players like Edwards, Gregory, Hanley and their generation?

I actually can't think of any. The game has little genuine skill.

So before crying out for change with Wane within just be careful what you wish for. Despite the rivalry, I think he is one of the best coaches you could possibly have at Wigan. I respect anyone in the sport with his level of honesty even if I don't always agree with what he says.

Changing the guard doesn't always bring what you would like and, in fact, can destabilise much of the 'good' that goes on and that you can take for granted. Maybe you just need a fresh look at the way you do your transfer business/play the game and attract new fans - a change to the way you play would do that in no small measure.

You'll be there or thereabouts again next year. What's needed is change at wholesale SL level; no one Club in isolation will turn the game on its head. I wish there was a constructive way for fans to lobby for that - I hear it everywhere I go.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:12 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

I've been struggling to put it into words how i've felt about the club over the last few seasons but you've absolutely nailed it. I love Wigan and i always will, but watching them has become a chore more than a privilege. Well said, mate.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:24 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

Great post, no need to add anything.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:54 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

We haven't always seen eye to eye on here as I'm sure you remember, but you are absolutely spot on here. Well said. Last year I called us out as champions from a long way out, simply because the rest of the league was crap. But being the best of a bad bunch isn't the Wigan way and we can't even claim that this year. Something's got to give...

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:52 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE : Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 am  

An excellent post. And touches on many points which for those of us in the RL world outside the Wigan bubble captured also what many actually feel about the club but find it hard to put into words.

Wigan were and are a great RL club who were respected in equal amounts. The difference is that now I just don't think the respect is there, certainly not to the same degree. And that's sad because it took generations to build.
Because their is an insular feel about Wigan this will probably be rejected instantly by most Pies.
But honestly that is the way most see Wigan RLFC now. One or 2 players really typify this feeling and the theatricals that grates so much on all other supporters. It is certainly not to the benefit of your fine club or RL in general.
RL need a Wigan who play free flowing RL, without tantrums, petulance, never ending gamesmanship etc. This is what Rl wants. I'm sure it's what the Wigan fan base want.
A club with your heritage should be setting the highest standards of play. Not a standard that is boring and driving your own supporters away.
Wigan should be a flag bearer for what is best in rugby league. At the moment it is not, and its more serious than just a blip in player quality that you have had to deal with before. It's about what you actually stand for as a club and the way the game is played. Or should be played.