Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:15 am  

Dreamer wrote: Interesting muslim viewpoints: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634095 Growing up on my estate there was much anger, frustration and violence. Yet none of us beheaded anyone. One question for that chap, is why are the muslim youth so different then? Lots of people were unhappy about invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Don't recall anyone beheading anyone there either.

Dreamer wrote: Interesting muslim viewpoints: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634095 Growing up on my estate there was much anger, frustration and violence. Yet none of us beheaded anyone. One question for that chap, is why are the muslim youth so different then? Lots of people were unhappy about invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Don't recall anyone beheading anyone there either.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:17 am  

Dreamer wrote: Interesting muslim viewpoints: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634095 A refreshingly large dose of common sense and realism there in that interview.

Dreamer wrote: Interesting muslim viewpoints: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634095 A refreshingly large dose of common sense and realism there in that interview.

[DaveO]

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:18 am  

Well I haven't read every page of this thread but after the first half dozen its going pretty much as I'd expect!

Sorry if this theory has been posted before but to me this looks like a couple of nutters who have latched onto the terrorism angle for their attack rather than something as organised as what we normally see a terrorist attack constituting.

I mean if someone Irish bloke walked into a bar and shot a load of people in Moss Side in Manchester and said nowt no one would jump to the conclusion he was a an Irish Republican. Even if he did so yelling "Down with the British" I still don't think people would automatically assume such a random attack meant this person was associated with the Republican movement.

There would be an investigation to find out.

Did he have any links to Republican organisations, was he a known sympathiser and so on?

It's got to be the same here. This incident will be investigated and one of the main things they will try and find out is things like have the perpetrators been abroad to be be trained, has there been any evidence of radicalisation and so on. Or are they just a pair of psychotic lunatics who have latched onto a "cause"?

My view is it is much more likely to be the latter and if it is it is not much different to some nutter in the USA doing a random shooting. Most people who do these things have some grievance but are NOT part of some terrorist organisation. I'd wager it is the same here.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:26 am  

DaveO wrote:

My view is it is much more likely to be the latter and if it is it is not much different to some nutter in the USA doing a random shooting. Most people who do these things have some grievance but are NOT part of some terrorist organisation. I'd wager it is the same here.

You could well be right, but from 12,000 miles away I appear to see this happening more and more in the UK. I hear stories from people back in London from time to time as well as seeing the odd article in the national and local press. And I suspect there is a much larger growing frustration amongst people back home who aren't as liberal or were more liberal and are getting fed up with this. This could be why people like the EDL will get bigger and bigger until things are addressed and not ignored.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:32 am  

Rooster Booster wrote:

You could well be right, but from 12,000 miles away I appear to see this happening more and more in the UK ...

You do?

Could you post links to all these increasing accounts of attacks like this, please. I must have missed them.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 10:34 am  

Rooster Booster wrote:

Growing up on my estate there was much anger, frustration and violence.

Yet none of us beheaded anyone.

One question for that chap, is why are the muslim youth so different then? Lots of people were unhappy about invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Don't recall anyone beheading anyone there either.

Because there are still fundamentalist radicals preaching/brainwashing hate to young and impressionable people. (in some and by no means all mosques). According to a muslim on the BBC this morning the muslim heirarchy are in denial and just want such actions brushed under the carpet.

Incidentally these are his words not mine, so if you have a question for him, go and ask him

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 11:03 am  

Chris28 wrote:

I have no idea on the first one, but that page suggests there were 50000 in 1961 and 226000 in 1971. Anything else you want me to read for you?

So less that 1/10 of one percent in 1961. As I said Islam was not practised here historically to any great extent.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 11:05 am  

Rock God X wrote:

I don't recall the BBC trying to demonise all Muslims because of the actions of a very small minority of Muslims, no.

No but a Muslim spokesman on the BBC was saying these kids get indocrinated by some Muslim clerics, which was the point I made (as opposed to the one you would like to think I made).

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 11:07 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Thank you Jerry. I am indeed aware of how the law works, but that was not the question.

I'll ask you once again, if a couple of Yorkshire's Jihadists stormed in to disrupt your Sunday lunch, and proceeded to behead your youngest daughter, would you be quite so sanguine? Would their "rights" to exercise their own brand of political terrorism trump your daughter's right to life?
....

That may be the most risible and pointless hypothesis of all time. Well done.

Re: Woolwich incident : Thu May 23, 2013 11:08 am  

DaveO wrote:

Or are they just a pair of psychotic lunatics who have latched onto a "cause"?

My guess is yes but with a little help from their friends (ie manipulative radical Muslims who used them and drugs).