Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:48 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Look, I dearly wish I could be with you when you pop your clogs, just to see the (metaphorical) look on your face when you realise that you've had your leg lifted. There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is nowhere for you to go because there will be no you. There will be some dead flesh & bones that will either be incinerated or left for carrion. Either way, you won't have to worry because you will be D E A D.

The Christian message is simple. Lead a good life and raise your children likewise. When you die you live on (via your children - who are half you genetically) if you've brought them up well they should do likewise and your "spirit" will live with them too. Over time if everyone does so, we create ' Heaven on Earth.' Hell can be seen on many housing estates were generations have taken a different vapproach.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:58 pm  

Dally wrote:

The Christian message is simple. Lead a good life and raise your children likewise. When you die you live on (via your children - who are half you genetically) if you've brought them up well they should do likewise and your "spirit" will live with them too. Over time if everyone does so, we create ' Heaven on Earth.' Hell can be seen on many housing estates were generations have taken a different vapproach.

So what about all the Jews, Jains, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and every other religion and even all those of no faith, who live a good life and instill goodness in their offspring?

What you have described is not a christian message, it is a humanist message

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:18 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

Humorous, but you miss the point again.

I didn't miss the point, the point was ridiculous and irrelevant, so I mocked it.

kirkstaller wrote:

There is ample evidence, such as the evidence I cited in my previous response.

You have not yet cited a single thing that can be classed as 'evidence' by any reasonable interpretation of the word. All you have done is said, "I believe it, so it's true." I'm paraphrasing, but the message is the same.

kirkstaller wrote:

Look, I’m sure even you will admit that I’m not a complete idiot.

Your posts would suggest otherwise.

kirkstaller wrote:

Do you think I’ve not looked at Christianity from a critical standpoint? Of course I have, and I believe that the evidence points to a world which has been created.

You are unable to look at Christianity from a critical standpoint. If you did, you would cease to believe it. If you still believe it, you haven't looked at it critically. And certainly not logically.

kirkstaller wrote:

You have faith in the men in white coats who tell you what to think.

No one tells me what to think. That's the beauty of being an atheist.

kirkstaller wrote:

You have faith in your senses to interpret scientific data correctly.

Scientific data is interpreted by many different people and reviewed until a consensus is reached. It does not rely on one person's say-so.

kirkstaller wrote:

How is that any different to fellow Christians reviewing theology? Or exhibiting physical gifts of the Spirit?

Really? You really need to ask that? How is empirical peer-reviewed evidence different to Christians reviewing their own book and finding it to be true? And you assert that you're not a total idiot?

kirkstaller wrote:

So if evidence came along which demonstrated that evolution was wrong, you’d be the first to admit it?

Yes. If the evidence was compelling enough and was subject to the normal verifications, of course.

kirkstaller wrote:

If so, why should I listen to you when you label it a fact?

Because no such evidence is likely to come along. Evolution is scientific fact. Every scientist thinks so. Anyone who doesn't think so either doesn't understand it, or wilfully ignores the evidence.

kirkstaller wrote:

No I haven’t.

You have. You haven't presented one piece of evidence yet. Your 'relationship' with Jesus is not evidence. It's not even in the same ball park.

kirkstaller wrote:

No amount of evidence will persuade you that God exists. Even if he appeared before your eyes and performed miracles I’m sure you’d just blame it on some kind of psychological episode. You will never be satisfied.

If God appeared before only my eyes and performed miracles, the most likely explanation would be a psychological episode. If, however, compelling physical evidence became available that confirmed his existence - evidence that was subjected to the usual rigorous scientific testing - then of course I'd believe. The fact is, that not one shred of evidence exists.

kirkstaller wrote:

You are an enemy of God.

If he existed, I most certainly would be.

kirkstaller wrote:

The people who witnessed Jesus’ resurrection were born again straight away. Their numbers multiplied astronomically. How do you explain this?

I don't need to explain it because there's no evidence it actually happened.

kirkstaller wrote:

An overwhelming majority of scholars from numerous faiths (or even no faith) agree he existed.

They might agree, but they present no evidence.

kirkstaller wrote:

Again, most scholars would disagree. You should then ask yourself why you accept or reject certain claims about his divinity.

I don't accept any claims about his divinity.

kirkstaller wrote:

Is that a fact just for today or for eternity? Real facts don’t chop and change depending on what way the wind is blowing.

There’s a notable lack of evidence of transition within species.

Eh? You should stop reading your silly websites and start reading some proper scientific literature.

kirkstaller wrote:

You fall short of God’s perfection, that is enough to condemn you. You are self-righteous. I am sorry to say you are destined for Hell whether you think you are a good person or not.

I'll take my chances. I'm already a better individual than your God. I don't participate in mass murder, for a start.

kirkstaller wrote:

Please, embrace Jesus.

F*ck Jesus.

[Kosh]

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:22 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

There is ample evidence, such as the evidence I cited in my previous response.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you have yet to post anything that qualifies as evidence anywhere.

kirkstaller wrote:

I am an educated man and make a good living for myself. Do you think I’ve not looked at Christianity from a critical standpoint?

People of faith are, by definition, unable to take a truly critical standpoint on the object of their faith. Had you truly used critical thinking - or even basic logic - to examine Christianity you would not have been able to come to the conclusions that you express.

kirkstaller wrote:

You have faith in the men in white coats who tell you what to think.

You have faith in your senses to interpret scientific data correctly.

Once again, you really do have no idea how science works at all, do you?

Science doesn't tell people what to think, and interpretation of data does not require faith. It's open to independent corroboration.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:30 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

You fall short of God’s perfection, that is enough to condemn you...

Someone made in God's image and made by that same God, falls short of his standard (i.e. perfection) and that is enough to condemn them?
Wow.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:41 pm  

So, if everyone who falls short of God's perfection goes to Hell, why is there a heaven? And who has made it to God's perfection? Is it basically just him and Jesus up there?

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:44 pm  

Him wrote:

So, if everyone who falls short of God's perfection goes to Hell, why is there a heaven? And who has made it to God's perfection? Is it basically just him and Jesus up there?

No man can make it Heaven through good works alone. That is Roman Catholic heresy.

The only way is through Jesus - the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6).

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:46 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Someone made in God's image and made by that same God, falls short of his standard (i.e. perfection) and that is enough to condemn them?
Wow.

Yes.

Our wilful rebellion against God (sin) is enough for God to justly send us to Hell. The Bible tells us that the wages of sin is death, and eternal death and eternal separation from God.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:46 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

Evolution is not hard fact. Are you millions of years old? No? Well then you have no observed any kind of macro-evolution.

Ever heard of an evangelical christian called Francis Collins? As well as being a christian he also an world renowned genetiscist and was the head of the Human Genome project. He has said in the past that the DNA evidence on it's own is enough to confirm common descent. Here's one of his quotes:-

"As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before. It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming. I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that."

Trying getting your information on evolution from proper scientists and not morons like Ray Comfort.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:47 pm  

Him wrote:

So, if everyone who falls short of God's perfection goes to Hell, why is there a heaven? And who has made it to God's perfection? Is it basically just him and Jesus up there?

No, no, you misunderstand. If you fall short of the perfection the heavenly dictator demands, but you accept that you're a horrible, worthless sinner, then throw yourself at his feet and beg for mercy, he might just let you into heaven. He's a great guy really, if you can look past all the killing and stuff.