Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:45 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Created a better team spirit.
Talked at news conferences like he knew what he was talking about.
Didn't look lost or like he'd given up on the team.

F*ck me, I never thought you'd come up with bile like that.

They both got KOd at the first time of asking. England against Germany would have done better than the England that played last night. A lot of myths go around about the Germany game, yes England were picked off as they chased the game, but the equaliser would have completely changed that match and everybody seems to forget that.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 pm  

Roddy, give it up, we know you don't like Hodgson, its getting dull now....For the most part you seem a knowledgeable chap, but with your constant anti-Roy campaign, you just come across as the typical Liverpool fan, who can't admit when you may be wrong.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:05 pm  

I like Roy Hodgson and I admire the way he has approached his managerial career, however he does seem to be getting some rather OTT praise for very minor things.

The way he has been praised for "building a squad/system in just a few weeks" is ridiculous, he didn't take a bunch of people off the streets, he took a group of professional footballers playing week in, week out in the "best league in the world" and adopted the most basic style of football possible, one which required to great thought or ambition and stuck with it whether playing a weak Ukraine or a reasonable Italy side. The Walcott substitution against Sweden was a good one, but last night's changes seemed pre-planned and were made with no thought as to what was happening on the pitch.

Capello would have been crucified if England had gone out at this stage playing like that, I don't think we'd have got any further if he'd been the manager - this is England's level - but at least he had learnt from the last world cup and had made changes to the playing system recognising that 442 will be exposed against quality opponents. The worry is England will now regress as it seems to be Hodgson's stock approach.

Although the FIFA rankings are flawed Capello's England were up to 6th based on two very impressive qualifying campaigns, wasn't he England's most statistically successful manager in competitive matches? OK it went a bit tits-up in South Africa but the football certainly wasn't as primitive as it has been in this competition, and England were nothing like as bad as is being made out.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:22 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

They both got KOd at the first time of asking. England against Germany would have done better than the England that played last night. A lot of myths go around about the Germany game, yes England were picked off as they chased the game, but the equaliser would have completely changed that match and everybody seems to forget that.

I think you're forgetting just how bad England were in the World Cup. We drew with the US, got outplayed by Algeria and scraped past Slovenia. Granted the Lampard incident was extremely unfortunate, but apart from 10 decent minutes vs Germany, England were a complete and utter shambles.

I think this time around, England have done what was expected of them. Without being exceptional, they still did a damn sight better than 2 years ago. We got a solid draw versus the French wthout ever looking too threatened, and beat both Sweden & Ukraine, which were tough games in their own right.

Yesterday was a poor performance, but even though Plan A (get a goal from a set-piece or from the 10 minute purple patch) failed, they just about achieved Plan B (take the game to penalties). It's not good enough, but then again, the team were never good enough.

One thing you've got to hand to England is they must be a bloody tough team to beat. 7 times in the last 9 major tournaments that they've taken a game past 120 minutes. I thought by the law of averages, we might actually win one yesterday. Sigh.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:26 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Roddy, give it up, we know you don't like Hodgson, its getting dull now....For the most part you seem a knowledgeable chap, but with your constant anti-Roy campaign, you just come across as the typical Liverpool fan, who can't admit when you may be wrong.

May be wrong? What am I wrong about? Was Roy actually the right man for Liverpool? Did Roy achieve good results with Liverpool? Did Roy play good football with Liverpool? Tell me where I've been wrong about Roy at Liverpool.

I don't like Roy, you're right, but what I hate more than anything is ignorance, and that's what so many football fans suffer from. Apparently getting battered for 100 minutes against Italy is OK because there was alleged heart there. Yet England shown enough 'heart' to equalise against Germany but were cruelly denied that goal. They were picked off by a world class side on the counter, yet people were outraged, embarrassed and furiously argued that the England side were a spineless disgrace. England's performance last night was embarrassing, but people will scratch around for positives in an attempt to defend a manager that is woefully limited. You could give Roy the Spanish national side and he would achieve similar performances, he is what he is. I'd love to know what people would be saying about him had they not tried to rub it in my face that they think he's better than Kenny. I think some people are holding back on a bit of criticism because they don't want to look fickle.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:40 pm  

Paul HHZ wrote:

I think you're forgetting just how bad England were in the World Cup. We drew with the US, got outplayed by Algeria and scraped past Slovenia. Granted the Lampard incident was extremely unfortunate, but apart from 10 decent minutes vs Germany, England were a complete and utter shambles.

I think this time around, England have done what was expected of them. Without being exceptional, they still did a damn sight better than 2 years ago. We got a solid draw versus the French wthout ever looking too threatened, and beat both Sweden & Ukraine, which were tough games in their own right.

Yesterday was a poor performance, but even though Plan A (get a goal from a set-piece or from the 10 minute purple patch) failed, they just about achieved Plan B (take the game to penalties). It's not good enough, but then again, the team were never good enough.

One thing you've got to hand to England is they must be a bloody tough team to beat. 7 times in the last 9 major tournaments that they've taken a game past 120 minutes. I thought by the law of averages, we might actually win one yesterday. Sigh.

England were bad at the world cup, didn't Capello say himself how shocked he was at the sudden weakness in mentality? But I don't think they were as bad as some people like to paint out in the match against Germany. I remember reading match reviews and so on a few days afterwards, a lot of the foreign journos weren't loaded with criticism like the English press, they actually shed a little pity on the no-goal and felt that would have swung things into England's favour. They were eventually picked off by a great German side (again, how good they were seemed to be ignored) and came up woefully short, but I am firmly of the belief that a Capello-managed England would have given Italy more of a game than England did. The result would most likely have been the same, but I think he would have tried to exploit Italy's weaknesses. However, I do believe if Fabio was in charge, there would have been much more pressure on the side, purely because the press didn't like him and criticised every single thing he done, even his English.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:49 pm  

I have said this before on here. England FC has ever made one final, and that was at home. Otherwise England has made two semi finals, and lost on penalties.And for those who believe there's no point in practising penalties, well no wonder we lose all the time you losers. You may as well argue that there's no point in practicising football. Oh, wait a minute, we don't.....

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:57 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

May be wrong? What am I wrong about? Was Roy actually the right man for Liverpool? Did Roy achieve good results with Liverpool? Did Roy play good football with Liverpool? Tell me where I've been wrong about Roy at Liverpool.

I don't like Roy, you're right, but what I hate more than anything is ignorance, and that's what so many football fans suffer from. Apparently getting battered for 100 minutes against Italy is OK because there was alleged heart there. Yet England shown enough 'heart' to equalise against Germany but were cruelly denied that goal. They were picked off by a world class side on the counter, yet people were outraged, embarrassed and furiously argued that the England side were a spineless disgrace. England's performance last night was embarrassing, but people will scratch around for positives in an attempt to defend a manager that is woefully limited. You could give Roy the Spanish national side and he would achieve similar performances, he is what he is. I'd love to know what people would be saying about him had they not tried to rub it in my face that they think he's better than Kenny. I think some people are holding back on a bit of criticism because they don't want to look fickle.

England's terrible performances in South Africa happened before the Germany game. They were eventually hammered against Germany, although they did play well at times, and Capello will have been criticised more harshly for that than he should, but the major damage was done in the group stage. We were truly awful in the group stages and that was what he rightfully got blamed for.

In South Africa we were a shambles and nearly everyone deserved a lot of criticism.

In Euro 2012 we were pretty much written off as a side who would not even get out of the group. We got through with relative ease and ended up managing to take Italy to penalties.

Euro 2012 was an infinitely better performance, from a clearly inferior manager and an inferior set of players. For that Hodgson deserves credit, even though you will never admit it because of your bias against Hodgson.

I don't think anyone on here thinks too much of Hodgson. He is an average, decent PL manager and it is a joke that England have to make a choice between him or Twitcher for the England job. In an ideal world quality choices would mean Hodgson never got near the England job. But sadly England has a limited supply of coaches so he's got the job. That's not Hodgson's fault.

Would Hodgson be a good manager for Liverpool at their peak? No way. But as a club they have slipped massively and Hodgson was probably one of the best choices for the situation they were in at the time. But Liverpool fans wouldn't accept that and LFC as a club punished him for being beneath them when the truth was they were at the same level.

Was Hodgson bad at Liverpool. Clearly he was. But looking at his career as a whole the Liverpool situation was clearly caused because LFC refused to take to him anyway. By not playing for him King Kenny could then come in and show how a real manager would do. Well you got your wish, and that turned out real well for you, didn't it.

Your bitterness against Hodgson has been screaming out in practically every post during this tournament. You were virtually supporting the opposition at every level. But that's okay, because you're not English anyway, you're scouse.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:36 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Would Hodgson be a good manager for Liverpool at their peak? No way. But as a club they have slipped massively and Hodgson was probably one of the best choices for the situation they were in at the time. But Liverpool fans wouldn't accept that and LFC as a club punished him for being beneath them when the truth was they were at the same level.

Was Hodgson bad at Liverpool. Clearly he was. But looking at his career as a whole the Liverpool situation was clearly caused because LFC refused to take to him anyway. By not playing for him King Kenny could then come in and show how a real manager would do. Well you got your wish, and that turned out real well for you, didn't it.

Your bitterness against Hodgson has been screaming out in practically every post during this tournament. You were virtually supporting the opposition at every level. But that's okay, because you're not English anyway, you're scouse.

Even you aren't this dim. Hodgson took over at Liverpool in 2010, at the end of the 2009 season we finished second! We had a poor season in Benitez's final year, for varying reasons, but so poor to accept that we couldn't improve and instead had to accept the bottom half of the table? So poor that we could no longer go out and play like a well-managed side, and instead play the stuff of limited pub sides?

It wasn't just that Hodgson was beneath Liverpool, he was the complete wrong man for the job. Managers like Hodgson have no place at clubs with aspirations. Stick him at a club where expectations are low and he'll exceed them, he'll claim a few scalps and he'll make sure relegation isn't on the cards. Nobody ever expected Roy to get near the top 4, but for him to come in and set Liverpool out with two flat banks of four, pin the full backs and midfielders in our half, concede possession almost every game and come out with the defeatist sh*te he came up with in pressers. It was demoralising as a fan seeing somebody so out of touch at a club that had been one of the CL's best competitors for the best part of five years.

With regards to Kenny, he clearly struggled and things never worked out, but things did improve under Kenny for 12 months at least. I've said before, we played some sensational football under Dalglish, great passing, movement and adventure. Results never matched the football we played, but that's football and it cost him his job. Kenny should have been given the job over Roy in the first place, Roy was never ever the right man, he never got it. He didn't get the fans, the club or the players. He was the wrong man, at the wrong time, at the wrong club, with the wrong owners and the wrong fans. Yet somehow people keep on telling us we're wrong, that he's a good bloke, a media expert, that he gets the best from little and we'd do well to improve on him. Absolutely clueless.

As for supporting the 'opposition'. Don't really remember me supporting everybody England played against. I don't bother with England as a fan anymore, it's boring, it's crap and the media/supporters knock me sick with the deluded idiocy that pops up every other summer. I would have liked them to win like I do with England in every sport, but when I watched the games, I just treated them as another football game and criticised England for the same things I'd criticise a side like Stoke for.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:49 pm  

This is a great thread.
Lots of passion without being silly.