Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:44 pm  

SirStan wrote:

Mate I've never been a fan of DR and this won't change my opinion of it. It smacks of "feeder club" and that's a potential identity killer. I have a lot of time for Fax, probably stemming from a very drunken weekend at Wembley in 1987 with some Fax supporting friends. I don't have any answers though, you need something if you are to compete with Leigh, Bradford etc in 2015. I doubt DR will solve your problems though.

I would rather not compete next year, we know who's going to be at the top of the league anyway, but stay alone and build the club back up properly. We've had a few poor seasons of late, I can manage another one or two. Up The Fax!

[Mild Rover]

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:21 pm  

Just reading the Fax Coach's take on it and with 25 players contracted it sounds like they're looking to add occasional quality rather than use it for depth.

There's a contingency whereby they would retain access to the players that had played enough games for them to be eligible, if we both end up in the middle 8, but they couldn't play against us. That is a bit iffy, but I guess so long as it is the same rules for all, everybody knows how things stand. Also if it means the players would continue to be eligible for both clubs, you could get a player playing alternate weeks for them and us, which'd be odd in the same competition. If it means they stay there, then that'd eat into our depth and I really can't see us going for that, especially if it is Green and Cox rather than for example (and genuinely no disrespect) Esslemont and Holker.
It's good they've planned for it, but dual-reg within the same 8 would look a bit odd.

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:57 pm  

Dress it up how you like, it's just wrong.

So many ways for this to be abused to manipulate the competition, and that's before we consider the loss of identity for 'fax.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:09 pm  

SirStan wrote:

Dress it up how you like, it's just wrong.

So many ways for this to be abused to manipulate the competition, and that's before we consider the loss of identity for 'fax.

All the good solutions cost money though, and there ain't much of that.

Hudd-Shay clearly prioritises identity over competitiveness. There'd be plenty of others that'd put up with this but be hacked off by another disappointing season on the field. That's the unpleasant choice their board faces. Not that this guarantees success, obviously - but sadly that's the way of things. And there but for the cash Hudge go we.

It is another fiddly RFL rule though. As you said earlier, why not just use loan deals? they can be for as little as a month anyway.

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:29 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

All the good solutions cost money though, and there ain't much of that.

Hudd-Shay clearly prioritises identity over competitiveness. There'd be plenty of others that'd put up with this but be hacked off by another disappointing season on the field. That's the unpleasant choice their board faces. Not that this guarantees success, obviously - but sadly that's the way of things. And there but for the cash Hudge go we.

It is another fiddly RFL rule though. As you said earlier, why not just use loan deals? they can be for as little as a month anyway.

Because the loan system doesn't enable the parent club to abuse the system in the way DR does, and like it or lump it, that's what DR was set up to do.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:05 pm  

Hudd-Shay wrote:

Because the loan system doesn't enable the parent club to abuse the system in the way DR does, and like it or lump it, that's what DR was set up to do.

If the was its purpose, then it arguably isn't an abuse.

SL has generally treated those clubs outside it pretty shoddily, I can't deny that.

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:37 pm  

No movement is allowed after the end of the regular season of 23 games.

Stay where you are or go back to your parent club, that's it.

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:20 pm  

The current system simply calls the integrity of the game into question.

The abandonment of the A teams/reserve grade has been shown to be idiotic and short sighted and should be reversed at the earliest opportunity. The cost argument does not hold water with modern contracted players in squads of 30 plus players. Indeed Rovers for one, made money from the home games back in the day even when they had to pay the players match-day payments.

With the pool of players available to professional RL clubs in this country shrinking by the year we can ill afford to continue with a system that sees too many players lost to the game too early and others denied any chance. The A team always provided gems for most clubs most of which would never get a look in the modern system not to mention the benefits of easing players back after injury and/or providing fringe people with regular rugby.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:49 pm  

Voltaire wrote:

The current system simply calls the integrity of the game into question.

The abandonment of the A teams/reserve grade has been shown to be idiotic and short sighted and should be reversed at the earliest opportunity. The cost argument does not hold water with modern contracted players in squads of 30 plus players. Indeed Rovers for one, made money from the home games back in the day even when they had to pay the players match-day payments.

With the pool of players available to professional RL clubs in this country shrinking by the year we can ill afford to continue with a system that sees too many players lost to the game too early and others denied any chance. The A team always provided gems for most clubs most of which would never get a look in the modern system not to mention the benefits of easing players back after injury and/or providing fringe people with regular rugby.

I doubt there's money to be made. A lot has changed since back in the day and it's not like many turn up to see the U19s even with it being free or very cheap for passholders, iirc.

30 players in a squad isn't enough, with perhaps 4 or 5 likely to be injured at any given time from round 10 or so onwards. Not as well as a senior academy.

But dual reg doesn't make money either. Going from under-20s, with some overage players to under-19s has made the already big step up to SL even bigger. That system will have cost more, but not that much, I wouldn't have thought. With hindsight that does seem like a mistake and the cost-saving solution to the problem has maybe just created a bigger problem (albeit elsewhere). Tbf, some of the richer SL clubs did want to retain the previous system.

Re: Dual Reg Deal with Fax : Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:10 am  

Voltaire wrote:

The current system simply calls the integrity of the game into question.

The abandonment of the A teams/reserve grade has been shown to be idiotic and short sighted and should be reversed at the earliest opportunity. The cost argument does not hold water with modern contracted players in squads of 30 plus players. Indeed Rovers for one, made money from the home games back in the day even when they had to pay the players match-day payments.

With the pool of players available to professional RL clubs in this country shrinking by the year we can ill afford to continue with a system that sees too many players lost to the game too early and others denied any chance. The A team always provided gems for most clubs most of which would never get a look in the modern system not to mention the benefits of easing players back after injury and/or providing fringe people with regular rugby.

A team games were good rovers and hull got good gates when they played each other I remember seeing Gavin Miller when he had just come to us, play in a A team and my mate at the time said who is this monkey who we have signed what a player he turned out to be